OK, enough's enough

I'm banning Marcello cos firstly because I was pretty sickened by the chest-thumping and general foul behaviour on the hip-hop thread. I fucking hated this and am guilty for just discovering the general unpleasantness therein (two people alerted me). Other people may have been stirring the shit and I'll be checking them out too.

Also, and just as importantly, I'm sick of him nitpicking blissblogger. What the fuck is your problem with Simon Marcello? Grow up. What it boils down to is this. If I'm going to have a forum in which either Reynolds or Carlin are going to feel comfortable, then it's a fucking no-brainer.

So there it is, I've made him welcome. I've completely refrained from making any attacks on him whatsoever. I've even been basically decent to him. What a pain in the fucking arse.

Just ignore them, Marcello. I know that's not easy to do, but you'll miss out on interacting with people who you care for.

I'd miss you here, if only because you don't email me anymore. ;-) Yes, I realize I'm not the best communicator. I'll try mailing you more. Sorry! :-(

ah you know, forget it, my tuppenceworth isn't worth it. I'm not involved with any of the flameness that has happened in the past, and am distant enough not to be drawn into it.

The two FAPs I went to were alternately a warm and friendly place, and a strange and odd atmos (I found out later it wasn't me, and fair enough). What people get so hot about, I don't understand.

But actually, sod it. There are people here I care for, but I'll continue to interact with them in other ways where the interaction doesn't have to be sabotaged by misanthropic cretins.

Whatever. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. I never think about it.

Making a big fuss about it just isn't really worth it. You may have seen how even an innocent thread for photos of Liz was abused by some anonymous coward who may have seen it as a powerful warning about using the interweb in such a way (to communicate and share feelings that may be best kept private or at least not displayed for just anyone to read - that same 'public exhibition of grief' that bellends like S1mon H3ff3r sneer at 'the people of Liverpool' for) - but more likely was just yet another dick with social and/or learning difficulties 'having a bit of a laugh'. The interweb's full of 'em you know.

xpost obv.

I've tried flaming right back, with obviously disasterous results. I've tried withdrawing from the immediate situation and noting my thoughts privately elsewhere (as suggested by my anger management counseller) - with the results that various trolls followed, unprovoked and uninvited, and continued their harrassment there.

The only thing to do is to try to exercise the patience and forebearance of a Saint - and despite my name, I am no Saint. I'm as frustrated as anyone else. Tensions are *higher* because of 7/7, not lower. And some (including myself) make obvious targets for bullying and harrassment because of poor impulse control. Because the obvious thing that a troll wants is attention, good or bad.

The obvious answer is, of course, "ignore it" but this is very hard when someone does the online equivalent of walking up to you and punching you repeatedly in the face, while the whole time spouting libertarian bullshit about "if you don't like being punched in the face, don't stand in front of my fists". It is hard to show forebearance which is not shown to you.

Anyway, as harsh as this sounds in the light of the former, the only thing I can say is this - FAPs are not run for your rehabilitation, Marcello. If you cannot take the rough and tumble of pub conversation - with all the arguments that the arguments of high emotion and drunkenness produce - then I would suggest that perhaps it is for the best for you to continue to avoid FAPs.

However, whether it's good or bad to be emotionally involved with one's community (online and IRL) I cannot help but be disturbed by the events here recently. ILX feels as emotionally edgy and under attack from emotional terrorism as London feels from the bombing kind right now. The feelings are probably intensely connected and I cannot disentangle them.

This will x-post to hell, if indeed the thread isn't locked by the time I post it, but whatever.

like, honestly, there are bigger things in the world to worry about just now than some retarded internet geeks being attention-seeking dicks?

It's the old "What hurts more, Your broken finger or someone else's broken leg?", it's all relative.

Oh I see, so it's unreasonable for me to want to go out, meet up with people I consider friends and enjoy a nice evening as a relief from the week's work and the general pains of life without having my pleasure ruined by egotistical idiots or misanthropic mentalists with their own agenda? I have enough rough and tumble and arguments at work, but at least I'm paid to deal with them there - why should I be expected to endure more of it in my free time?

Thus, by your line of thinking, I turn up on Friday, go out of my way to be nice to people, am courteous and sociable the whole day through, and I'm advised not to go to FAPs. Whereas Graham tips bottles of wine over people's heads, generally acts like a cunt, has to be forcibly thrown out of the pub, and yet we should expect to respond to him with "understanding" and "acceptance."

Explain to me how and why Graham gets the free pass.

But surely all aspects of life experience ups & downs, whether we want them to or not.

Madchen managed to say in one line what I was trying to say upthread.

Although I was in the loo at the time, it is my understanding that he was ejected from the pub. It is also my understanding that he has been barred, wrong or right, from Freaky Trigger.

What other punnishments would you deem fit for having the audacity to disturb your rehabilitation, Marcello?

(And I am very uncomfortable with the idea of "banning" anyone from public events, as there have been events in the past, right or wrong, where such tactics would have been employed on me.)

WE MUST CONTINUE TO MAKE THREADS.

are you going to reform yourself into someone who remotely commands an amount of respect?

1) Marcello doesn't have to like it, right?
2) People dont have to bear culpability for the actions of one individual, right? That really is how Nazi germany started.

If you think most people at the FAP are idiots or misanthropic mentalists, then yeah, it's probably a bad idea to show up.

Thus, by your line of thinking, I turn up on Friday, go out of my way to be nice to people, am courteous and sociable the whole day through, and I'm advised not to go to FAPs. Whereas Graham tips bottles of wine over people's heads, generally acts like a cunt, has to be forcibly thrown out of the pub, and yet we should expect to respond to him with "understanding" and "acceptance."

See when I go out I don't feel like being nice is some kind of effort or charity I give to people, sure I expect people to be nice back, as most people I know are fairly courteous, but I know I can't demand it from EVERYBODY. Who apart from Graham at the friday FAP was being anything but top notch?? Really? As Madchen had said so OTMly that all I can do is be on my good behaviour, that's how society works right? It's not about how I should be able to make everyone behave the way I like them to. But as I said, if you really feel that a majority of people in these places are idiots, then yeah sure it's probably not the place for you.

xpost naturally.

These two FAPs were specifically ruined by two specific people. The majority of people who come to FAPs I find charming, sociable, amusing and interesting. I'm talking about the whole thing being undermined by one bad apple with his or her own agenda. Are we really supposed to tolerate Kate or Graham's freakouts at FAPs? And if so, for how long? Until we get thrown out of/are barred from every pub in London?

To paraphrase Mr Ingram as quoted above, if it's a choice between making an environment that's comfortable for Kate or Graham or an environment that's comfortable for everybody else, then really it is, as the man says, a fucking no-brainer.

Would you suggest a vote, then? Ban Kate vs. Ban Marcello?

I'm glad that your new, "kindler, gentler" act has been shown up for the sham it is - just another platform for you to get on your old hobbyhorse. Cheers.

When you're not happy with someone's behaviour you are entitled to express that, just as others are entitled to ignore it because SOME THINGS ARE MORE IMPORTANT, or because they have learned the wisdom in Madchen's words and are much happier for it.

see it's this bit. RUINED??? that implies it's gone from great to the shittiest fucking thing in the whole world. i mean, a little over-dramatic won't you say? The FAP on Friday was so fucking great. Despite Graham having done something despictable, isn't that a testament to how great people are?

I don't like being blunt but this is my point

To paraphrase Mr Ingram as quoted above, if it's a choice between making an environment that's comfortable for Kate or Graham or an environment that's comfortable for everybody else, then really it is, as the man says, a fucking no-brainer.

i don't think many people are feeling like the enviornment is being so utterly intolerable. but if you really can't see that all in all the positives outweighed the negatives, and finding it really uncomfortable then perhaps it really isn't the place for you. (i.e. it's also a choice between making an environment that is comfortable for you vs other people's too - there is no one environment that is good for EVERYONE ELSE because we are all after different things)

Tom OTM upthread, really.

I missed this :(

Like I say, I went out of my way to nice to her on Friday. I've refrained from starting any arguments with her on ILx over the last month or so. That'll teach me to try it!

come on mark, his username is "Society Asshole" ffs!

xp

xpost

Because I cannot believe that I am the only person here who finds this kind of behaviour offensive and upsetting.

Or is it just my ludicrously antiquated, decadent humanist notion that people should treat other people with basic courtesy, decency and respect? Silly me! What was I thinking?

Or maybe it's others like Graham who actually need to grow up?

If you want the friendship fine. If you don't, then don't bother. Which is basically what this thread is saying right?

*gestures to dusty duelling pistols mounted on the wall. one is engraved 'C/D', the other 'S/D'*

You're not the only one, but your own behaviour (online at least) is found offensive and upsetting by same people.

Why continue to talk about Graham when a) he's not here and b) everyone agrees it's best he didn't turn out to ILE gatherings in future and would rather just forget him altogether?

I didn't actually see Teh Lex fall off his chair either, and am not even sure it happened. But I'm sure it could have happened, and that is the point.

Marcello we all need a break from ILX sometimes, I can totally understand why. But EVERY TIME you need one you maneouvre yourself into a totally pointless fight so you can give yourself a 'reason to leave'. There is no shame in just taking a bloody break! I just don't get your compulsion to burn bridges as soon as you build them. :(

i don't know what this thread is meant to achieve.

A desire in this ILXer to get to a London FAP ASAP, sounds entertaining.

On the other hand, no.

It would probably get fairly quiet though, very quickly.

(NO ONE GET ANY IDEAS)

Knowing this would make many threads a lot clearer to me.

1. troll
One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

But in truth I probably won't come back to ILx (yes, MC, how many hundreds of times have you said that before, blah blah cry wolf etc etc) because chances are that I'll encounter someone acting like a twat within five minutes of my return, and I'd prefer to contribute to a message board where that doesn't happen.

Knowing this would make many threads a lot clearer to me.
What makes you think there is an alternate answer?
x-post
Damnit Nathalie! ;-)

here we go..
http://www.lolrider.com/poptimism/DCP_4419.JPG

I really dont mean to laugh, but good luck finding one - seriously Marcello, I'm not being sarky. This place is a goldmine of maturity compared to most discussion boards, by a LONG MARGIN.

Marcello we all need a break from ILX sometimes, I can totally understand why. But EVERY TIME you need one you maneouvre yourself into a totally pointless fight so you can give yourself a 'reason to leave'. There is no shame in just taking a bloody break! I just don't get your compulsion to burn bridges as soon as you build them. :(

This seems very OTM to me.

The "instaban" that Marcello is apparently demanding would be a Bad Idea, though. It's a fine line between trolling and, um, not trolling. I've been a cunt towards people in the past myself - some of them current ILXors - usually when I've been feeling a bit unstable, and possibly sectionable even. At times like that, you don't feel well enough to tell yourself to step away from the keyboard; and being isolated from your friends is also likely to make you worse.

I am sad to hear that you won't be coming to FAPs, Marcello, because whenever I've seen you in person I've liked you, which I can't always say for whenever I've come across you online.

No more graham.

It is an option.

If FAPs really all were about having daft conversations about Irish country music and practising dance moves from More! Magazine then I'd have no problem with them whatsoever. It's the other stuff that worries me.

Marcello, I've been on a lot of boards and lists, and believe me, you aren't going to find this. ILX is the best in this respect, easily, annoying though it may be when it gets all snarky like this.

Increasingly I'm thinking an "ignore user" feature, where posts from selected people aren't shown might be a good thing.

I'm sorry that there was unpleasantness at your meet-up.

but i bet everyone would ignore me there.

"You have been locked out of posting to this board by an administrator"

But I would make some pretty bad jokes.

xpost.

a scurrilous rumour! I recall nothing of the sort and DENY IT ALL.

fwiw, I didn't feel that Graham's cuntishness on Friday ruined anything, because nothing that one insignificant potato-person does can be enough to offset the goodness of everyone else. I would understand if Colette felt differently! And Marcello, I enjoyed meeting you in person and would like to do so again, so I hope that you rethink this decision not to come to faps.

How are you managing to post while you're away???

Still I should clearly be honoured to be included in such distinguished company.

crimson

dammit...

I'm sure this idea has been considered and rejected several times in the past. And it's not like you can add a feature like that to a FAP.

Looking at that Noize Enemy list, I'd view being on it as a compliment.

*checks navel urgently*

I heard the internet was full of navel gazers; to make sure I'd fit in, I went down to the docks to watch all the shipping.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama/totheendsoftheearth/images/450x187/episode2.jpg

(and it emerged on a third thread that several ILXors have been tapped on the head with John Knox's trousers)

I like also Mark S's jousting picture.

Rainy, Natalie, I had considered emailing both of you re: Graham, but I'll just keep it short here. Both of you seem like great women, so I'm not saying this with any disrespect, but as someone who invested a lot of emotional time and effort in trying to be a friend to Graham, I think the mentoring process is a lot less draining if you're not in the same country. I still feel terrible for giving up on him, but without wanting to sound melodramatic, it was him or my sanity.

-- ken c (pykachu10...) (webmail), July 26th, 2005 8:25 AM. (ken c) (later) (link)

Does that count when I accuse you of being RANDOS? ;D

Not a very good idea in practice. Sounds good in theory, but then people will reply to one of their messages and you'll get all confused wondering what they replied to... Suddenly realizing that, oh yeah, I blocked that user.

Anna, thank you. I realize I shouldn't have commented on the thread, not knowing what happened, but I was curious. I should have also realized it's just none of my business and that I would/could upset people. I am sorry if I have done so.

I like...oh who cares.

No, no, we care a lot. :-)

What we had on Friday was a situation where a lot of people were dead uncomfortable with someone's presence (and with good reason). Most of you could keep the situation at arm's length and did so; G pretty much shadowed my group of friends all the way back from Essex (distressing some of us) and we did talk about doing the decent thing and telling him to sod off at the pub door but like Kate decided in favour of giving him the benefit of the doubt. As the night went on it became clear that we would have to revise that decision, and some of the girls decided we'd simply had enough.

(I thought it was 'Society is a hole')

I just get jumpy when it comes to things like violence and shouting. Can't help it guv; way I was brought up innit :-(

(Aside - I think Marcello has done exceptionally well in recent weeks in building bridges and reintegrating himself. Its a bit of a shame to see this largely unnecessary thread stir everything up again).

I just hate to see unpleasantness in others when I'm trying my best to eradicate it from myself.

I need to learn not to get wound up by idiotic trolling first thing in the morning. That really set my teeth on edge, in combination with everything else.

So I am totally and completely sorry if anyone got wound up the wrong way by this thread, and feel free to delete it if you think it's unnecessary.

The actual truth is I LOVE all you people but I can't stand seeing you arguing, in part because it sets me off arguing again. You know how people who've just stopped smoking suddenly become virulent anti-smoking? That's kind of how it makes me feel.

For me it's like learning to walk again. You stumble quite a lot in the early stages until you gradually rebuild your own confidence.

Apologies, apologies, what more can I say?...I'm trying, chaps, I'm trying.

(Sorry, I'm engaging in crass point-and-laughism, will go fuck off now.)

(What did Graham do?)

xpost

woah, does he lurk or what?

Or should we/I just mind my own business, I dunno...

It finally takes someone from EDGWARE to point this out.

Getting him to do a poo in your fanny would be the ultimate ILX trophy.

:-(

xpost or no?

EDGWARE is a state of mind.

also, ken, it was an xpost

It's all true, as well, about those box sets that no-one bought!

hmmm, I have been known to be quiet and awkward and hang around ppl without contributing to conversations much or at all in my time. Quite possibly this has freaked ppl put and they've wished I'd gone away. On the other hand, I have never delierately thrown wine or any other beverage over somebody deliberately and if Graham had done this to me I would definitely had punched him or kicked his ass. No desire to stir things up here - if ppl want to email me privately on the subject to explain more (seeing as I wasn't at the memorial FAP to witness the unpleasantness) then pls do so; the email address below works.

Well, that explains it now, doesn't it?

Ned can't drive!