Hart or Mould?

I had a girlfriend who listened to a cassette copy of Warehouse with the Hart songs left off. It was about the dumbest fucking thing I'd ever heard, and suffice to say, we are no longer dating.

Hopefully you saw to it that she's no longer living.

"Sorry Somehow" was actually a Mould song (and one of his best), but what about "Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill"? "Celebrated Summer"? "Terms of Psychic Warfare"? "Never Talking to You Again"? I just can't believe anyone would prefer Mould (who is still better than 95% of all songwriters).

dude this is a Mould song!

"from around New Day Rising/Flip Your Wig, Bob's highs were much higher than Grant's"

Exactly. Not aware of any Hart song that comes anywhere near "Makes no Sense at All."

Even though it's songwriting credit is given to Hart and Hart sang it on the record?

"Makes No Sense At All" is probably the best song on Flip Your Wig, but danged if "Green Eyes" and "Flexible Flyer aren't the two runners-up.

both are Mould tracks! arrgh!

I play guitar in a band that just covered "2541" for a split 7-inch Grant Hart tribute style thing. He's coming up to Western Canada to play some shows and the two bands on the 7-inch ("Lorrie Matheson and the Brass Tacks and The Maykings") are going to be opening up for him.

So the Hart fandom runs pretty deep.

Their post-Husker careers I find almost entirely without interest.

I still want to do a movie where a bunch of drunk Englishmen sing a rousing version of "She Floated Away" in a dark tavern in the nineteenth century.

However, Grant's finest moments, and one of my top 5, if not favorite HD songs, is Keep Hangin' On, from Flip Your Wig.

funny, i'd say almost the exact reverse. mould's more consistently good, but hart's highs ("pink turns to blue," "girl who lives on heaven hill," blah blah blah blah) are infinitely higher.
both sucked massively on warehouse.

both also sucked massively in their solo careers, except for hart's "2541" and i admit there are a couple of pleasant mould solo and sugar songs somewhere in that bin, so that one's a draw.

Heaven Hill
Pink Turns To Blue
Flexible Flier
Sorry Somehow
Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely
Never Talkin To You Again
Green Eyes
Keep Hangin On
Books About UFO

The only really good Sugar record is Beaster, and that Hart record on SST has a few good moments, "2541" and "Now That You Know Me" chief among them. Haven't heard all of Mould's solo output, but what I have heard is not impressive.

Oh my GOD I love that song...probably my favorite on that album. It's just the best, all around. That "oh god, oh god, oh god!" kills me.

That said, although I think Mould is on average the better songwriter, I agree that the best individual number on an album is usually a Hart tune. It's way tough to pick though, so I'm not gonna.

Greg
http://www.thenortonsrestaurant.com/
http://www.startribune.com/stories/456/4820409.html

Grant
http://www.granthart.com/
http://www.nomadpub.com/

Bob
http://modulate.blogspot.com/
http://www.yeproc.com/news.php?articleId=1830

Husker Du
http://world.std.com/~thirdave/hd.html
http://babelogue.citypages.com:8080/pscholtes/2004/10/28
http://www.sstsuperstore.com/

http://www.bobmould.com/

!!!!!

Christ if I ever find myself up there...

They were both unique voices and great, unconventional musicians, though Mould as guitarist somewhat eclipses Hart as drummer. "New Day Rising," "Reoccurring Dreams," "What's Going On," and the cover of "Eight Miles High" were all-band efforts, right? Hart sang backup on the best Mould songs and vice versa. Other songs I'd have trouble leaving off a compilation:

(Mould)
Games
Whatever
Celebrated Summer
Something I Learned Today
Everything Falls Apart
In a Free Land
Chartered Trips
Broken Home, Broken Heart
These Important Years
The Biggest Lie
Divide And Conquer
Target
Data Control

(Hart)
Girl Who Lives on Heaven Hill
Pink Turns to Blue
Green Eyes
Diane
You Can Live At Home
Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely
Books About UFO's
Terms of Psychic Warfare
Sorry Somehow
Turn On the News
Flexible Flyer

Why the sarcasm?

It kinda felt a little patronizing for someone to come marching into a thread like this and throwing around a bunch of links that could've easily been googled.

We're very aware that Bob Mould is skinny and has a blog now, thank you very much.

Lieutenant Governor Krist Novoselic
Almost a Hüsker Dü reunion
rock stars who went back work.
Husker Du Dreams
Bands who give other members a go at singing
sure sign that the 80s Rock Underground has moved on
Husker Du : Classic or Dud, Search and Destroy.
Famous or Not so Famous Rock Stars Who Live At Home With Their Mothers
People with nothing to fall back on
who was the worst dressed band ever?

amongst others.

I think Hart is one of the most criminally-overlooked artists around. He apparently is working on a new album for late 2006. After re-introducing myself to his older work, I'm looking forward to a new Hart album.

However, his song, "New No. 1," from "The Last Dog and Pony Show," is riviting.

Plus, I shared an awkward moment with Hart when he got me high and hit on me outside a club when he played.

Tarnation!

this makes me want to reinvestigate Warehouse, as when i bought it when it came out, I thought it was RILLY RILLY bad. I haven't heard it since giving it to someone…

As always, your entry point for a band is crucial. I first heard the Huskers a few months after Warehouse came out and was pretty crushed that they'd broken up. If you're not attached to the noise and terrible production, it's definitely the way to go.

Hart is overlooked primarily because he's spent too many of his post-Husker years being hooked on heroin and not being productive. (Also some bad luck, business-wise, I think, but maybe he couldn't get a better record deal for the same reason.)

Intolerance was a bit shambling and hokey for me -- and I still prefer the original version of "2541" to the band re-recording for the album. I liked the first Nova Mob record a lot, but at that point I just felt like he needed better instrumentalists to put the songs across.

Also saw GH as one of many special guests of Patty Smith at one of the Jewel Heart tributes in memory of Allen Ginsberg. Hart was just one of the unassuming masses that night.

In my short time at ILM I've noticed that j blount is the most reliable moron here. Cheers, J!

Loved HD though. I'm in the Grant Hart camp, but not so firmly entrenched. If you look at the songwriting credits overall, it's pretty clear that Bob (in writing the bulk of the material) wrote the "sound" of the band, and Grant provided some constrasting "color".

Grant's tunes are far more varied, and draw more explicitly on non-hardcore, non-Husker sonics: folk, pop, hard rock, even country. And Grant's best tunes are wonderfully simple and memorable, like children's songs. This gives his stuff an idiot-savant quality, that (even if it's imaginary) probably appeals to some and turns other folks off.

Bob's stuff, on the other hand, was more visibly "songwriterly". It's a more consistent, personal, and unique body of work. It seems like the product of trying harder. And it really does define the band's sound, attitude and intentions.

Like, I said, I prefer Hart's stuff. It's more fun, more antic and more innocent. But some days I might go the other way...

http://www.amazon.com/Hot-Wax-Grant-Hart/dp/B002ITLSYS/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_lnk
http://files.dvdnote.com/images/300dpi/MVDA4911.jpg

Grant Hart’s first solo album of the 21st century is one of the best things he has ever done. The former Husker Du drummer and co-songwriter worked with the diverse cast of musicians from Godspeed You Black Emperor and Silver Mt. Zion on this new CD, Hot Wax, recorded in Montreal and Minneapolis. Grant on some of the some of the songs: the song “Narcissus,Narcissus” is my first attempt at combining ancient Greek mythology and American rock-a-billy. By merging those influences with an ice cream truck atmosphere I think I have found a style that defines this period of my career. “You’re the Reflection of the Moon on the Water” is one of the most organic rock and roll songs that I have ever written. It’s style owes a lot to my devotion for patti smith. It was inspired by a comment made by a monk during the selection process to find the next Panchen Lhama, who said of one candidate, “he is the reflection of the moon on the water but he is not the moon.”

tracklist:
1. You’re the Reflection of the Moon on the Water
2. Barbara
3. Charles Hollis Jones
4. Schoolbuses Are For Children
5. Narcissus Narcissus
6. California Zephyr
7. Sailor Jack
8. I Knew All About You Since Then
9. My Regrets

yes and i got it at the record release party in mpls on thursday :)

some discussion of it here:

TS: Chris Mars -vs- Grant Hart

ahh ok, didn't see it.

How was the release party?

um...interesting! : )

first band was pretty ehhh like new pysch thing

between bands this woman had a weird art installation (? i guess?) where she had all these light bulbs fanned out of a bike tire that hung from the ceiling then she used a squirt gun filled with some kind of chemical to make the light bulbs explode, i guess she is a friend of grant's

then grant played, first song he did without a microphone and without his electric hollowbody plugged in so you had to come close to hear.

then he plugged in and did the fairly typical grant set of newish stuff (one of the big probs i have with this album is it's only like 9 songs and I would say he has a least that amount of good newer songs he's been doing for the past few years that AREN'T on the album)...

he worked in some husker and solo classics, did "pink turns to blue" (introduced as "you wanna hear a blues song?")....lots of typical sorta uncomfortable tense stage banter....did "2541" which me and my friend decided is the "Waterloo Sunset" of Minneapolis....

then another guy I didn't know came up and played guitar with grant, that part of the set went really well i thought...

overall it was okay not nearly as good as turf club date he did about three months or more ago, he seemed a little tense..

the vinyl wasn't ready for the show but he had merch, a rarity for a grant show, new CDS and new t-shirts...

wasn't like a super "dark grant" tense show but also seemed a little nervous and distracted, wonder if he was tense about the new album coming out...

got the CD, and I agree with some of the criticism, it's definitely more skattershot than Good News....obv the result of like 10 years and multiple studios, people, producers, etc....

A lot of the songs are just amazing, he's never lost his gift for writing weirdly affecting pop songs, and his voice somehow holds up despite his lifestyle, his voice sounds so "young" still despite his sorta unhealthy pallor...

i basically think he is a genius.

but yeah it's not as cohesive and a couple of songs are too garagey, esp narcissus, narcissus, which is always amazing live, it's too muddy sounding...still it's growing on me...."california zephyr" is great, "schoolbuses are for children" too....like the sort of trad torch song, he should try to pitch that to Feist or someone and make some $$ off it.

basically, it's at turns brilliant and disappointing....pretty much exactly what i expected in some ways.

honestly i wish someone had been making high quality live recordings of all grant's last 10 years of mpls bar shows...that would be the ultimate grant, hear the brilliance, the meltdowns, the weird audience baiting, the oldies, the new ones that will never end up being properly released, the way he can act like a dick then break your heart with a song, then act all charming and funny....that would be grant hart as we've known him.

oh yeah "barbara" is such a pop song wow

I basically think he is a genius

Agreed. I wish he had his act together a little more.

Over on the eMusic Message Boards, someone supposedly "in the know" said that Hart's new disc would be available on eMusic soon. Haven't seen it so far. . .

amg review
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:dpfpxz8ald0e

and yes, he is a genius.

jeez erlewine don't break your leg writing that epic review...

He says it's Hart's "richest collection of songs to date," but the disc only gets 3.5 stars (no bad, but not great, and I think less than AMG gave to Good News for Modern Man 10 years ago). That's all nitpicking, I suppose.

That review's pretty lazy. Regardless, it's just not that good of a record, and it honestly pains me to say that.

is the "california zephyr" a hank williams cover?

the record sounds fine to me.

i'm liking it more and more

mostly:

no, or at least i really doubt it, not familiar w.the hank song and this song is pretty classic grant power pop

I'm spinning Intolerance for the 1st time in years

Sailor Jack is pretty great. And sort of underproduced/uncluttered, which is charming, in a way.

i really like the album a lot... maybe i prefer the first three songs of his last album to anything off of this, but certainly its (much) better than the rest of that album.

It's on Spotify folks
http://open.spotify.com/album/5PBaS8oAyN58OphJkFSQGT

Hm. I'll buy it, sure. I adore parts of Good News, probably will adore parts of this one. He'll have a helluva "Best Of" if he releases another album in 2022 or so... Already I'm divided: have "Sailor Jack" and "Schoolbuses", love the former, revile the latter. So it goes.

I always regret not picking up pompeii on cd for £2.99 in an HMV sale about 15 years ago as id already spent like £50 that day.
I do have the s/t nova mob cd and intolerance vinyl and all of my senses 12"

bob mould made one of the greatest husker du songs celebrated summer, but grant hart was incredibly talented with the girl who lives on heaven hill and one of my favorites pink turns to blue

sorry somehow
http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/music/114748104.html

Twin Cities musician Grant Hart suffered a two-room fire at his home in South St. Paul and was temporarily hospitalized Wednesday, but friends say the Hüsker Dü veteran is doing alright now and sorting through the damage.

The South Metro Fire Department responded to an emergency call at the house at 2:43 p.m. and arrived to find fire and smoke coming out of a window. Friends said Hart, 49, is happy that his two cats survived. The home originally belonged to his late father and his mother, 86. Among the items lost were a favorite guitar and some gear, said Hüsker Dü attorney and friend Doug Myren, but Hart is "still picking through everything and doesn't know how much of his other gear might have been hurt by smoke damage."

Reps from First Avenue and the Turf Club said they were interested in holding benefits for Hart if needed. Hart played 7th Street Entry on Christmas and came straight off a European tour to perform at First Ave's 40th-anniversary party in December.

oh shit, that sucks, i just worked on that guitar for him a couple of months ago.

also as a dude who knows and deals w/grant pretty regularly, a lot of the super negative mythos is kinda unfounded at this point, hes a pretty nice dude who def had some rough times thats kinda settled into himself and gotten his shit together imo- also he is crazy crazy smart. him losing gear is a huge bummer.

also in terms of this convo, w/o regards to knowing grant, Sugar has always been godawful and i am baffled when peeps bring it up to cast mould in a positive light.

totally, wholeheartedly agree about sugar. I've always been more of a hart fan, tho.

Huh? I've always been more of a Hart fan, and think his first two solo records are unsung classics, but the first Sugar album and EP are ace, and tbh the only post-Husker Mould I listen to.

Aw, poor Grant!

(Beaster still fucking rules though)

yeah this sucks but i'm glad he's not letting it get him too down. fire is powerful scary.

I don't doubt that Hart would have made fine records if he'd started his own band after HD, but he didn't and Mould did and here we are.

no respect for nova mob eh

yeah nova mob was pretty good...."shoot your way to freedom" is one of the all time great smack songs

also "Good News for Modern Man" by Grant Hart is a straight up psych pop CLASSIC and >>> anything Mould has done since huskers.

it kinda bums me out that people act like grant "hasn't done anything since the first couple solo albums" when it's more like he just didn't have the business shit in line to get any attention

he put out a pretty weird interesting record last year with Hot Wax too. well worth hearing.

oh and if you can track the solo acoustic live album Ecce Homo by grant down it's really great and really the most representative of what his live shows have been like in the last 15 yrs

Yeas, the first half of Modern Man is pretty unfuckiwthable.

http://www.slicingupeyeballs.com/2011/01/28/bob-mould-see-a-little-light-trail-of-rage-and-melody/

I find Hart's songs to be much more tuneful and that he's a much better singer than Mould, whose voice is just kind of ugly. Hart's voice sounds even better today, tory and frayed with a reediness that makes it sound beautifully lived in. Loved Hot Wax too, several great songs: Barbara, California Zephyr, No Regrets . . .

(Harold or Maude)

also "Good News for Modern Man" by Grant Hart is a straight up psych pop CLASSIC and >>> anything Mould has done since huskers.

100% OTM

Yeas, the first half of Modern Man is pretty unfuckiwthable.

closing track -- once it kicks in, after about 2:00 of murmuring -- is killer, too.

Intolerance and Good News ... were his only solo albums, until Hot Wax, no? The last one is nowhere near the same league as the first two, but man, those first two are killer. All of My Senses is a great solo career opener.

yeah, those first two solo discs are near-perfect.

I really went off on Pete Scholtes in this thread for no good damn reason.

I listened to all of Warehouse today for the first time in 15 years and got all mad about that tape with all the Hart songs removed again. Maybe that's where the unnecessary anger upthread was coming from.

I'm sorry somehow, Pete.

Hey! there's a deluxe reissue of Nova Mob's The Last Days of Pompeii!

http://mvdb2b.com/s/NovaMobTheLastDaysOfPompeiiSpecialEdition/MVD5094A

would love a reissue of the second nova mob lp as well. like all grant's post-du stuff, its a mixed bag, but when its great its really really really great.

I've got lots of Mould but only "Ecce Homo" from Grant, What would a Grant best-of contain?

'you don't have to tell me now' and 'think it over now' and 'nobody rides for free' off good news for modern man.
'2541' and 'the main' off intolerance.
'getaway in time', 'admiral of the sea', 'werner von braun', 'where you gonna land' and 'over my head' off pompeii.
'old empire', 'i won't be there anymore', 'if i was afraid' off nova mob.

adds for hart best-of compilation: run run run and little nero from GNFMM (hope those titles are right; working from memory and via cell) and all of my senses and you're the victim from Intolerance (that whole album plays like a best-of disc, AFAIC).

a friend of mine got the reissue of pompeii and says its vastly better soundwise...i think there was some actual remixing done to make it a little less flat sounding in addition to a remaster

Very nice!! I'm going to make that comp RIGHT NOW and report back!

Ok, I put together that Grant Hart/Nova Mob comp based on the 17 tracks cited above.

This quote sums up what I'm feeling, mostly about "Intolerance" and the first Nova Mob album:

Intolerance was a bit shambling and hokey for me -- and I still prefer the original version of "2541" to the band re-recording for the album. ... I just felt like he needed better instrumentalists to put the songs across.

The second Nova Mob album was alright, and frankly the best stuff was from "Good News", with "Nobody Rides For Free" being the highlight. But overall I just didn't find much of it *compelling*.

I'd never heard the band version of "2541" until today and it's just a shell of the single version, which is an all-time classic! I guess that's why "Ecce Homo" just works best for me, the voice-and-guitar presentation means nothing gets in the way of Grant getting the emotional core of his songs across.

Hot Wax growing on me. Was *meh* at first, upgrading to *say...*

ugh, grant's voice on ecce homo, though... i mean, i know it wasn't a great night for him, but really...

Until Mould starts to do something half as interesting as Hot Wax, I hereby declare

HART

Why did it take me so long to listen to this? He's so committed to being as Grant Hart as he can be! It's awesome if you're in the right mood.

Lots of room for adding your own harmonies in this stripped down version of "My Regrets"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFwKJm8lNpo

2nded. hot wax is glorious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTjfl0yhyRk

^^^^ fave du tune

Grant is currently recording a concept album!

As far as HD goes, Mould all the way, no contest.

2nd the R Forster version of 2541....
― DAVE, for #1 Hits of yesterday and today! (dave225.3), Sunday, June 11, 2006 4:26 PM (6 years ago)
thirded.

LOL, I saw Hart and thought:

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01551/tim_hart_1551255c.jpg

... that's Tim btw

OK, this is fucking like it:

https://soundcloud.com/dominorecordco/sets/grant-hart-the-argument

I'm sorry somehow, Pete.

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for this, Pleasant Plains. It was kind of you to think of me, and it meant a lot when I read it--and I meant to respond, but am apparently committed to a minimalist, decade-spanning thread!

Sad to see Norton's close, though their expanded second location was less than their smaller first one (resisting the metaphor here).

http://i.imgur.com/VHy70vR.png

this makes me want to reinvestigate Warehouse, as when i bought it when it came out, I thought it was RILLY RILLY bad. I haven't heard it since giving it to someone…
― veronica moser (veronica moser), Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:09 AM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

as long as we're responding to posts from several years past in here, i'm genuinely curious to know if veronica ever went back and did this reinvestigation. warehouse was such a crushing disappointment to me when it came out, and i'd love to know if anyone else who thought the same ever changed their mind.

Speaking of Warehouse, I was just reading this pr copy on a nightclub webpage:

Bob Mould is playing select, intimate dates in celebration of the 25th Anniversary of his seminal first solo album, “Workbook.” Bob, along with long-time bassist Jason Narducy, will be performing selections from “Workbook” as well as other songs in Bob's catalog that sit nicely alongside this album.

Released in 1989 — a year after Hüsker Dü disbanded — “Workbook” is a singular statement of renewal. It has proven an inspiration to a generation of musicians ranging from Dave Grohl to Ben Gibbard. Ryan Adams describes the album as “the sound of the internal and the subconscious, of dream, of regret, and of a silence that was lingering.”

Warehouse reminded me of Workbook somehow...Although very different

http://thequietus.com/articles/14555-bob-mould-workbook-25th-anniversary-interview

He's got ringing in his ears

Last night Bob Mould kicked off his solo tour in Washington DC.

According to setlist.fm he closed the set doing "Never Talking to You Again."

https://www.setlist.fm/widgets/setlist-image-v1?id=4b95734a

Of course this is a Grant song. Did he do Grant songs solo before or is this new, likely because of Grant's passing and the title, if not the lyrics of the track? Also according to the website, Bob has done it before but only a handful of times and only since Grant's passing so I assume that is why he is doing it now. I don't think he ever did Grant songs before, or any other grant songs before or since.

Well, opened his encore. Whatever.

it's only since Grants passing I don't think ever did Grant songs before

"Sinners and Their Repentances"!

lol I love how he refers to his own songs as "covers."

He doesn't refer to them as covers. The setlist.fm site does. It's very particular in these cases.

(At least he probably doesn't refer to them as covers.)

When Hart and Mould played together at the Karl Mueller benefit, they played "Never Talking to You Again" and "Hardly Getting Over It." Mould has been playing the former here and there since then.

ah gotcha xpost

Had he played "Broken Home, Broken Heart" instead of "Chartered Trips," he would've played the first three songs off of Zen Arcade in order!

"...Broken Heart" -- oh the layers.

The show I got wasn't nearly as cool... Oh well.

https://www.setlist.fm/widgets/setlist-image-v1?id=63955a13

Not every day he does "In a Free Land" though!