This is the thread where we anticipate and then flip out over how great M.I.A.'s 'Arular' is

what does 'arular' mean anyway?

is 'China Girl' not on it then?

that's my favourite one :(

in theory this should have leaked by now

this MUST have leaked if i can find single tracks.

also this song is fucking insane.

That's the most obvious hit!

though i prefer china girl as a title.

i'll love you forever

lindseylohan@gmail.com

i leaked in my pants for this board, if somebody could leak to my inbox, it would make me a very happy man.

lexusjeep at gmail dot com

xxxxx

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

i'm on slsk, 'manolito goreiro', add me to yr lists!

i entered and then am given this annoying news:

Thanks for taking part. We'll be closing the competition at the end of February 2005, we'll email the winner to notify them. Naturally there's no cash (or otherwise) alternative to the prize - who'd want one?

In the meantime, catch M.I.A. on tour in the UK with Roots Manuva in February and March and hold out for 'Arular' in the US on 22nd February and in the UK from early April

I can't wait until APRIL!!

it doesn't make a lot of sense

sorry xxxxx

the original is not great. it was on this seven-track arular EP that was floating around hard-copy, i think diplo did the beat for it and neither he nor MIA were happy with it so etc etc. i'll send it to you though soonishly (i'll just yousendit here), there's actually another track on the EP that didn't make the full-length too i think.

http://s8.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0LTZQ4I6QNKWW1RYIQ3Y4FJ7MS

In this folder is URAQT, You're Good, and something else I don't have a title for (so "Untitled").

http://www.blackmelody.com/clips/good.mp3

thanks nick.

hombre, china girl (10 dollar), amazon

did diplo do any tracks on arular? i didn't think so but maybe not.

maybe the whole mixtape full of album-y content before full-length was a bad idea?

can i also say how crazy it is that we're halfway through january and through the past week, i've gotten the new m.i.a, beck, clipse mixtape, edan and mu?

will we name this 'stuff rollie likes' week?

HEY NICK

Actually what's nice for me is that I still haven't heard that yet, so this is standing more on its own.

Clipse MIXTAPE! Is this as good as it sounds?

i think i agree with this. surely at least 50% of the love for pft is actually love for arular?

xp to alex obv

here's that clipse mixtape, i made this a few days ago, don't expect many dls out of it:
http://s14.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=9050E8BB3D524DAD436830BB2D1CC30A

i love the internet.

this original version of URAQT isn't a dancefloor destroyer because it's fucking slow but the beat is GULLY as shit. these horns!

(mad xposts)

http://img116.exs.cx/img116/897/clintonsparkspresentsclipseweg.jpg

OMG ALEX THE JUSTUS ALBUM CAN YOU GIVE ME THAT SHIT

It's probably smart to sit on it so that they have one guaranteed blockbuster on the follow up to this album.

i thought 10 dollar was r-x too...?

I'd totally agree if Bunnybrains box didnt exist, but it does, so sorry.

Many, many thanks.

Does anyone have this in MP3 format yet? I can't wait until April dammit!

Should I drive down to LA just to catch the show?

nate's taking over the national media!

No. Jody Rosen is a guy who writes about music. Jody Beth Rosen also writes about music but is not a guy.

Now if only it wasn't a Thursday night. But maybe I could mysteriously 'fall ill' on Friday and miss work (except I've tried that before with bad results).

*mwah

ashman and titchy strider

http://www.rockreviews.net/albums/menace.jpg

Everyone has the Clipse mixtape AFAICT.

She's credited in the booklet with taking the cover photo. Stand the lawyers down!

ilm in slate.
m.

Tonight, Steve Aoki busted out "10 Dollar" twice at Cinespace in Hollywood. It was crazy. People went nuts. Also, her videos were bascially on repeat on various monitors which was super cool.

On rateyourmusic, M.I.A currectnly has two duplicate entries. Would you classify M.I.A as Great Britain or Sri Lanka - re: county?

What exactly IS "rockism"? Just kidding. *** Click here, M.I.A. fans!!!! ***

iWhat exactly IS "rockism"? Just kidding. *** Click here, M.I.A. fans!!!! ***

What exactly IS "rockism"? Just kidding. *** Click here, M.I.A. fans!!!! ***

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0007KIFLO.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Going to do my best.

Positive side of the cover -- I supposed 'Jamaican album design' is not a real term but it clearly slots into the style of many covers I've seen of dancehall and reggae releases, and is neat for that reason.

Negative side -- the militaristic imagery combined with the jet (a passenger jet at that) raises...questions.

As designs go I think the cover is really well done. Politically, hmmn, I think I need to read more MIA interviews before I pass any judgment on it.

Cicatrix,

The fact that you are half Sinhalese probably shielded you from witnessing what she witnessed as a Tamil. Yes, I'm a Tamil, and I can tell you many stories like that too. Things that happened to my family and friends.

It's time the world gets to hear something other than Sinhala government propaganda.

As for Mia, I really respect her for voicing her opinions like that. Most celebrities don't do that.

Is the PLO line really any worse than, say, "Dizzee run tings like Idi Amin", especially in the context of the rest of Sunshowers? It seems a bit early to be passing judgement.

That said I really hope she doesn't start spouting all sorts of bollocks in interviews because that will almost certainly detract from the sheer pleasure this record is giving me. I agree with Nate that its the best album I've heard in the last couple of years, best since Kish Kash at any rate.

The thing is, anti-Tamil Tiger sentiment isn't the exclusive domain of the Sinhalese. It's shared by many Tamils who have suffered greatly themselves at the hands of the Tigers.

My iffy concerns are not her expression of her beliefs, but the fact that interviewers who don't know much about the situation label the Tamil's 'freedom fighters' from her references and leave the reader with inferences that - read without any knowledge - can really distort their impression of a much more complex situation.

I think she presents her politics very well, musically and lyrically - this doesn't mean I agree with/endorse them. I'd definitely like to read more about what she has to say though. Wasn't her dad a Tamil Tiger?

Abby,

"It's shared by many Tamils who have suffered greatly themselves at the hands of the Tigers."

I beg to differ. Many Tamils SUPPORT the LTTE. They like me, may not agree with everything they do, but they support them. The only reason the LTTE is powerful now is because of the massive support it has within and outside of Sri Lanka. It is a fact that the Government of Sri Lanka is really trying hard to deal with. 17000 odd people don't just die for a cause that they don't believe in. People also don't send their hard earned money to an organization that they despise.

In anycase, I don't know if you have heard about "Pongu Tamil" celebrations. They occured in many places around the world, including in Canada. I was there, and it was really amazing to see many people show up there to voice their support for LTTE like that. I don't know the exact number of people who showed up for the Toronto event, but Global TV put it at 100 000 and the Toronto Sun reported it to be 10 000. The organizers said there were 75 000. You can take your pick! All I know is that Queen's Park was totally filled with people on that day.

Anyhow, there are few Tamils who don't support them, but those people are exceptions rather than the rule.

Also here is the thing, most of the Tamil people I know would chose LTTE over Government of Sri Lanka any day. And they don't even feel passionate about Eelam like I do!

It is just not a good idea to be vocal about your support for them there. People get arrested for being Tamil, can you imagine what would happen if you admit you support them..?!

That's one of the reasons why I admire MIA so much! It is not so easy to Stand up like that!

Therein lies the problem for me, though, because her lyrics, artwork, interviews etc. reference the LTTE... and nomatter how glamorous and romatic the term 'freedom fighter' may be, the truth is never clear cut.

I object to your presumption that my half-sinhalese status shielded me from anything. I LIVED there during the '83 riots. I still have a Sri lankan passport. As sinhalese mobs searched the streets for tamils to attack, my tamil mom and her tamil friend hid indoors, and I was told to hide under the bed with the friend's son. My tamil uncle had a gun held to head by a LTTE member when the LTTE decided to take over the Batticaloa university where he taught as a professor. He had fingers broken for objecting. I have many more, but that's beside the point.

I agree that the Sinhala govt. is shit. What third world govt. isn't? In the aftermath of the post-colonial period, only the most pandering and corrupt types of people survived the power vacume. But randomly blowing up bus stops, schools, places of worship, markets...these ONLY kill and miame the innocent. Those LTTE supporters in Cananda....how many are Tamils from Southern India, I wonder. They have nothing to lose, and ethnic pride to flaunt. Most Tamils in Sri L:anka have been sqeezed from both ends - the singhalese govt bigotry on one side, and LTTE forced recruitment on the other.

There are never any good alternatives, you know? I just ask that, please, consider what exactly you say you support, before you throw the full weight of your enthusiasm behind it.

(sorry to everyone else for this long tangent.)

funny to re-read this recently :

mya 'gilang'.

believe it or not 'Arular' was due september according to that thread.

I've read everything I could find about her, and the question of her father's involvement in the LTTE still remains hazy and somewhat contradictory. Some articles say he was one of the founding members of the group, others say that he was just a sympathizer, and some others say he was just 'involved' in some murky way.

No doubt that whatever his involvement, the family was in danger...but I sense that with her British sense of how things should be, she never understood that ALL families in Sri Lanka are in danger... and her experiences with the poverty and fear and bigotry in Sri Lanka left a searing impression.

When I moved to the West, I thought kids here were unbearable pampered little shits. When a bell rang in school, I'd jump in fear and almost wet myself, cause it sounded like the bomb-alert sirens in SL. I was quite violent and angry for years. As a teen my drawings were consistently disturbing abstracts, or graphic depictions of death and amputation that I hid from prying eyes. My point is that MIA's art makes sense to me. It's what anyone with PTS would do, where ever they were from. But while it's one thing to work out your emotional/creative issues out like that, it's quite another to present them as a 'statement' of some sort. (Maybe some would disagree with that.) I get the sense that she's got all this creative talent, but isn't exactly thoughtful or logical.

I mourn the fact that the country I grew up in barely exists. What wasn't bombed to bits by the LTTE, has now been washed away. I don't know if it's possible to undo 20 years of fear-mongering and chest-beating by both the greedy, unscrupulous government and the greedy, unscrupulous terrorist. Different sides, same coin.

For anyone interested in learning more about SL, but would like to start small - Salon.com sent a journalist to cover the post-tsunami situation in Sri Lanka. Much to my surprise he's turning out quite accurate descriptions of the people, customs and political climate there as well. (You view a short ad to access the site)

btw, I hear her Knitting Factory show in NY sold out in hours.

So my question for everyone is this: does anyone have any moral qualms about listening to a musician who espouses a view you don't agree with (obviously I mean more extreme cases than just red/blue)? Is it wrong/irresponsible/understandable/etc. that M.I.A. uses her music to show support for terrorists (government's definition of the Tigers, not mine)?

I am really glad this topic was brought up--I considered it myself when the thread originally started, but I didn't want to be a killjoy.

This is a groundless worry, because let's face it kids in the West don't care passionately enough about anything to meaningfully support it. (And those who do care passionately enough about politics are either a) smart enough to do the research to get a complicated view of the situation or (and more likely) b) likely to be too dumb to care about the nuances if MIA bothered to point them out.)

Yes.

"Is it wrong/irresponsible/understandable/etc. that M.I.A. uses her music to show support for terrorists (government's definition of the Tigers, not mine)?"

No. Maybe. I have no idea. And I'm sure she doesn't think about what her music does or the "government's definition" of the Tamil Tigers in the same bizarrely Bush-speech colored way you do.

Could you provide a direct link to a particular story there, or grouping of them? My understanding of Sri Lanka's history in general has always been poor beyond generalities -- a perhaps typically-Western construct I grew up with was that it was 'that island off India called Ceylon once,' but there's little I've learned about the island beyond that. I fear the only other thing I know offhand is that Arthur C. Clarke has lived and taught there for years!

Before the govt. banned tinted windshields and tinted motorcycle visors, they'd do motorbike 'drive-bys.' A tinted-helmet wearing man would steer, while a woman, spraying bullets from a semi-automatic, rode behind him. Sprayed into people shopping for groceries at open-air markets, kids in line for school buses, people waiting to see a parade roll by. Not to mention letter bombs, car bombs, school-bag bombs, tiffin-carrier bombs...pretty inventive, and exhausting to recount.

I was pretty upset by MIA's site too. My point is that the Sri Lankan government IS corrupt and flawed and guilty of crimes against citizens BOTH Sinhalese and Tamil. And this remains true nomatter which 'legitimate' political party (there are many) assumes power. But the LTTE is NOT an answer. They just made everything so much fucking worse. Seeing MIA present them like hipster Che Guevara types, with the cool tiger icon and the scrappy bandanas....when I know TAMIL people who've got shrapnel in their mouths because a LTTE car bomb detonated while they were stuck in traffic jam...honestly, makes me want to vomit.

Fight the system from within, yeah? If not willing to do it the boring way, you're probably out for something besides genuine social change, and therefore are full of shit.

Jesse, your questions are hard to answer. It's a bit of a mind-fuck for me. I think she's beautiful...Her music is orgasmic. But then, there's the site. There's what she says when she opens her frikkin' mouth at interviews. I think I can go on admiring her apearance, even listening to her songs.. but I don't dare see her perform live, in case she exhorts the audience to chant LTTE slogans or some such shit. I can't say that might not do something irrational and violent if so.

I'm glad she's getting her music out. She's 'different' from what's out there, which is always a good thing, even if everything she does/wears/dances is exactly like that of my sisters and childhood friends. I'm just very afraid the the sinhalese (who are terrible at PR, and don't have the internet savvy of pro-LTTE orgs) will soon be tarred and feathered by the international community...Lead by a some of the 50 million South Indian Tamils, who, like I said, have nothing to do with Sri Lanka except when it's about flaunting ethnic pride in the name of some 'cause' jerry-rigged by some militia types.

I don't expect any Western journalist (let alone MUSIC journalists) to clarify the situation for western fans. It's too complicated, and they'd be terrified of accusations of bias. How would the journalist know which side can be believed? There are opinions on this board that conflict wtih mine...how to know which is right, if you've never lived there yourself? It's been 15 years since I emigrated, and despite visiting, I don't think I can say I know the country with assurance anymore.

Ok. Getting off my soap-box.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/01/11/sri_lanka/index_np.html

Please let's not drag Bush into this. Anyone who talks about 'evildoers' should be banished to the children's table for perpetuity.

Alex, if you've read my posts, I don't see why you seem to think I'm concealing something. As I said, I'm ethnically half and half. If I'm against the LTTE it's because they made the situation worse. If you don't know much about Sri Lanka, it seems rather silly of you to blast me for simply using the phrase 'dictionary definition.'

Not knowing a lot about Sri Lanka doesn't necessarily mean that I don't know something about terrorism and how people characterize terrorists (and I wholeheartedly agree that terrorism solves very little, but I also don't think it's fair to expect people who are put in the impossible situation of having very little or no means of effecting change/freeing themselves from oppression to look at things with some sort of logical cost/benefit analysis) and I think that definition itself is a bit of dodge since it basic alleviates any necessity to actually engage with terrorism ("they are terrorists after all, they aren't rational, they are extreme ideologues, we should stamp them out blah blah blah.")

I find it interesting that I have read the entirety of this thread and unless I missed something only the barest attention has been given to the reasons why the LTTE exist (and all terrorist organizations have a putative reason, it's pretty hard to recruit people to blow themselves up without one--I don't buy that) and why someone from MIA's perspective would reasonably think that despite their violent actions that these reasons would be enough to justify their existence.

But piracy funds it!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/country_profiles/1168427.stm

Various Sri Lanka government sites are linked there, so in the interest of an alternate perspective as well:

http://www.tamilnet.com

Turns out that the bottom of the profile page has a slew of Sinhal and Tamil newslinks, so go nuts.

Which a) gives remarkably little credit to M.I.A., a 28(?)-year-old artist--seeing her as a passive product of her environment (a view that is perhaps encouraged by her website/label's promotion of her subaltern identity)--and b) presumes a moral relativism that the person above was uncomfortable with ("one can't condemn something if it exists for a reason"), and thus obviously doesn't address his concerns.

Yes, the horrific violence perpetrated by various terrorist groups comes out of oppression, without which they could not get support, etc. But I think it's perfectly reasonable to object to legitimating that violence in the way that M.I.A. apparently is doing.

Who said it was unreasonable? I might have said it was pretty fucking pointless and completely myopic and basically a way to dodge dealing with politics in any sort of serious way, but unreasonable nah. Not me.

GT- I never said that many Tamils didn't support the LTTE, only that many do not as well. The forced recruitment of child soldiers and violence from the LTTE against Tamils themselves who oppose their methods have created Tamil refugees fleeing Tigers, not just the main government situation.

I don't know, maybe for some people. But I think it's pretty obnoxious to accuse cicatrix of myopia and political naivete for objecting to M.I.A.'s iconography when s/he apparently has a more informed perspective than anyone else who has posted in this thread. It really is possible to condemn organizations like the Tamil Tigers from a politically sophisticated position, even if that's not always the way it's done.

I would agree and quite a lot of what cicatrix said I find/found very informative and worthwhile (and well written.) I realized I didn't say this before, but with the heat of the argument and all it's hard to stop. Anyway I've probably derailed this thread enough so back to arguing about art and politics and responsibility and what we expect from artists and all that.

I am back to solely say that this almost (I mean there are a FEW groups like this, but come on really) complete bullshit designed to smear left wing groups and persons and the same sort of right wing media branded fuckwittery that facist regimes live and breath on.

I understand that sentiment...I would imagine it comes from the unnecessary persecution of leftist groups--the Red Scares in the '20s and '50s, the Sandinistas in Nicaragua, etc. etc. From a personal standpoint, it is hard to justify political views when there are terrorist groups that are on some level on your side--for instance, supporting the creation of Palestine/opposing the politics of Israel is hard when taking that position puts you on the side of the PLO, in some people's eyes. Just like listening to an incredible artist is hard when you realize what her lyrics mean, I suppose. ;)

It strikes me that a lot of the fuss is caused by the perception that MIA is some sort of spokesman, whether for the Tamil people or the Sri Lankan political situation, which is entirely inaccurate: what comes across in her music is the sound of an individual following and expressing her own deeply held political beliefs. The criticism seems partly due to the exotica factor: very few of us can claim to have any decent knowledge of the politics she casually drops into her songs, and I definitely get the impression that it's because of this that so many people are paying attention to the nuances of the position she's espousing - as opposed to what would happen if MIA was American, or French, even if she took an equally radical stance. I'm not sure this higher standard is particularly helpful.

On a purely artistic level, I have to say the imagery and political connotations of her work are pretty awesome: the album sounds like a form of guerrilla warfare, the beats sound like bombs, various noises spring out of nowhere and suddenly attack your ears. It's very much immediately reactive to a changing situation around it, rather than being a planned-out attack.

For now, thanks very much for the info Ned. Appreciate it.

Also, regarding leftist resistance groups...I pretty much agree with what Jessie said. Though I do think you can retain a particular view while condemning those who commit terrorist acts for the same cause. I would think that though the objective may be the same, the paths followed can diverge widely enough (e.g.pacifism vs. violence) to cleave into two viewpoints.

Anyway, just wanted to inform y'all that the current Sri Lankan president's mom (who was the world's first female president, by the way) was not just leftist. She was a frikkin' trotskyite! How'd you like dem apples, eh?

So much for leftist sympathy with terrorists, etc. The whole thing is a fucking soup. I can take SL politics apart further if any of you are interested, but for now let me repeat something I believe in ...There are no perfect alternatives. There are no good guys. I'm jsut not sympathetic to any group that belives their ideals to be more important than innocent civilian lives. Bombing schools? c'mon. Forcibly recruiting child soldiers (Abby also seems to know something about this) from the very people you say you represent? please. I will be first in line to bash the Sri Lankan government. But please don't lets cheer everything that's happend in the name of Eelam.

"very few of us can claim to have any decent knowledge of the politics she casually drops into her songs"
I can. And frankly, she's one confused chick. An artist's reponsibility is something we can argue about for a while, but just look at how "awesome" you find the "guerilla warfare" sounds of the album to be. THAT is the "exotica" factor, and she emphasizes it with the tiger flags, dynamite sticks, guns, molotovs, and all her statements in interviews. And THAT is what I have a really hard time dealing with. She's making this fun/hipster/cool..very "Viva Zapata!" as said by Gen Y...it's cute when it's about a situation over and done with.. but this is NOW in Sri Lanka. There's nothing awesome about it.

and also, no one really seems to be considering that these could very well be her deeply held convictions that she fully wants to communicate to people. it's probably not a gimmick, she does seem intelligent.

Show me all these left wingers that are "tolerating terrorism" (and first person who says by downloading music and buying Chinese DVDs gets a hearty laff)? Excepting occassionally doofus-y groups like ANSWER who may do and say all sorts of weird non-representative things as point making exercises mostly, I do not KNOW any leftist individuals or credible left wing group which supports, advocates or tolerates terrorism, torture, genocide, etc. . . (first person who sez Weather Underground gets a double laff cuz I said credible--and probably should say current to boot, cuz people did some crazy shit in 60s/70s.) I don't know ONE leftist who gives money to "terrorist" organizations or who has openly defended violence against civilians or non-militants. So show me and everyone here where and how these left-wingers are supporting/tolerating (and pointing out that military aggression against Saddam Hussein is complete insanity amongst other things does not = tolerating btw--thank you Bush Admin and Fox News for being forced to make that stupid point) terrorism or shut the fuck up.

I haven't read all your posts yet; just the first few. Your comment about the South Indians supporting LTTE is so way off.

I admit, it was India that raised and nurtured LTTE in the early '80s. That was mostly because of MGR (Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu who was born in Sri Lanka), and Indira Gandhi (Prime Minister of India). MGR was very genuine in his support, Indira Gandhi wasn't. They both still funded not just LTTE, but a whole lot of other Tamil militant organizations as well.

In anycase, to the Tamils' bad luck they both died soon after, and Rajiv Gandhi came into power. With that India's foreign policy changed. They started opposing separation in Sri Lanka (mostly because of Kashmir). Due to pressure from Tamil Nadu, India still wanted to make sure the Tamils in Sri Lanka were treated fairly. So, the Indo Lanka Peace Accord was signed (LTTE signed too). Under the requirement, Sri Lanka would grant rights to the Tamils, and the militants were to disarm (LTTE, EPRLF, TELO, etc). This was when Tamil was recognized as an official language, and the North East provinces were merged.

This is where Sri Lanka's true nature kicks in. Because of the concessions being made to the Tamils, JVP starts getting all powerful again. A lot of people started joining, and Jeyawardene got his hands full. As a result, Indian Peace Keeping Force was brought in to well, keep peace. Instead, due to escalating violence, fighting erupted between IPKF and LTTE.

Since there was also massive opposition to IPKF in the South, Premadasa came into power on the promise that he would make them leave. As a result, he ended up arming LTTE himself! Eventually, IPKF left. Many consider Sri Lanka to be "India's Vietnam".

Later on, in 1991, Rajiv Gandhi was assasinated. Some say it was done by LTTE because he was seriously considering sending Indian Troops again to Sri Lanka.

Because of the whole IPKF thing, and because LTTE is blamed for Rajiv Gandhi's assasination, India hates LTTE. This inclues South Indians.

As a result, LTTE gets no funding from India. Most of the funding they get now is from Expats living overseas.

Secondly, there are not that many South Indian Tamils in Canada, atleast not compared to Tamils from Sri Lanka. I think there are approximately 300 000 SL Tamils in Canada.

In anycase, I was at the Pongu Tamil event in Toronto, and I didn't come across any Indian Tamils. That's not to say there weren't any, but if there had been a significant number of them, I would have noticed.

Words that always raise my hackles and suspicions when people use them to describe themselves or justify their actions: "freedom fighters."

But she's totally using militaristc/political symbolism w/ real world meanings in her music yet she removes it from context, making it into a part of the package of her music.

Anyways, a lot of you here seem to accept that LTTE is a terrorist organization. So, I have a couple of questions for you.

1)What do you do if you want to separate from a country because you were repeatedly being abused, and you failed after trying democratically? (Please keep in mind that our struggle has been going on for about 50 years, and it has only gotten violent in the last 20 years. In 1977 Tamils of North East voted for TULF on a platform of separation (this was when it was first proposed). They failed to deliver Eelam and after the July 1983 anti-Tamil riots they got banned by the Sri Lankan government. That's when the war "officially" started.)

2)The number one reason LTTE is considered a terrorist organization by US is because of it's use of Sucide bombings. Is sucide bombing worse than air raids? In anycase, Sri Lanka has the highest number of sucide deaths in the world. Infact, it's so high that scientists there are going through dead people's brains to determine why people sucide (I'm not kidding!) If people are killing themselves like that, can you imagine what somebody who had lost family members or been raped or tortured by the Sri Lankan Army would do?

3)LTTE for the most part targets military, government, and financial establishments. Their most recent attack was on Katunayake International Airport, and there was no civilian death. Of course, that attack severely damaged Sri Lanka's economy. It was so severe, that the government finally came to the table to talk. Anyways, I admit civilians have died in other attacks, but LTTE doesn't target cilians though. Sri Lankan Army on the other hand bombs indiscriminately. I lived in Sri Lanka until 1991, I know this. I still remember the times, when I have gone to bed not knowing whether what I saw outside was shelling or lightning. They have bombed our schools, our homes, our temples and our churches. They have also raped many women, and killed many more innocent people. I just visited Sri Lanka very recently (just got back 3 weeks ago), so I have heard many stories like this, from the people who live there. So please, enlighten me, how is the LTTE terrorist, and Sri Lankan government our representative? There are thousands of "innocent" Tamil civilians who died because of government sponsored riots, who died because of torture in the hands of SL Police, who died in air raids by the SLA, and who died because of economic embargo on Tamil areas by the Government of Sri Lanka. Are they less "innocenter" than the civilians (mostly Sinhalese) who died in LTTE attacks??

Why this double standard? Why would the world accept LTTE as terrorists based on the words of a government that doesn't represent us? Why would the world not accept what LTTE is asking for (Tamil Eelam) as legitimate even after some 17000 LTTE soldiers died asking for it?

www.tamilnation.org
www.sangam.org

They are both exceptionally good. They are both Tamil sites, so yes there are very supportive of LTTE.

If I could, let me ask one question for now -- in your second point you make an observation about the study of suicide rates in Sri Lanka. Could you point to a site or paper or anything on the Net confirming this? I have no problem in giving both you and Cicatrix the benefit of the doubt in your various posts, but I think you'd both be able to show all of us looking at this from an outside point of view -- not a willfully ignorant one, but one that is curious and wants to find out more -- some good sources for reference. In part that's why I made the links I did above, and I know I was only scratching the surface.

Slight x-post -- thanks for those two initial links, can I also note that the easiest way to create live links on this board is to include the 'http://' bit before the web addresses:

http://www.tamilnation.org
http://www.sangam.org

Ned,
The article I read on brain research isn't any one of these, but for now these will have to do:

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=22142

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/health/article-page.html?res=9A01E2D91E38F937A15752C0A9639C8B63

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/129684.stm

Since I read it recently, I should be able to find it again. :)

Anyways, thanks for the advice on the links! :)

the album sounds like a form of guerrilla warfare, the beats sound like bombs, various noises spring out of nowhere and suddenly attack your ears.

Yeah, and I got the same marital vibe from the Diplo mix. Sort of joyously militant. Agile like an air raid.

The thing is, in the musc -- and on Piracy Funds Terrorism even more so, with its baile funk and so forth -- I hear all that as kind of generalized Third World/Global South power-to-the-people rabble-rousing. As opposed to actual incitement to arms or endorsement of terrorism. But of course, it's pretty easy for me to hear it that way, since I have the luxury (or disadvantage, depending on your point of view) of a generalized Western liberal view of the Third World/Global South. Specific conflicts in specific places all start to sound like somebody else's family feuds (this is the same reason most non-Jewish Americans don't really know what to think about Israel/Palestine, it doesn't really feel like our fight, and we can see problems on both sides, so there's a tendency to shrug and say, "Oh, those people have been killing each other for centuries").

But obviously one interesting thing about having a figure like M.I.A. emerge is that -- however Londonized she is -- that conflict in particular is personal and specific to her, even though it isn't for the primary audience she's reaching. (Which makes her different than Tamil or Sinhalese singers in Sri Lanka, e.g.) And we're only even having this conversation because she speaks English and performs in English for English-speaking audiences. In contrast, there's stuff like the "Princess Nicotine" collection, which could contain a bunch of angry political songs for all I know but since I don't speak the language I only hear it as a detached cultural artifact.

I'd like to read more about all of this, including from M.I.A. herself. I hope it doesn't capsize her or anything -- I can just see idiots like Bill O'Reilly picking up on it and distorting all of it ("She has an album called Piracy Funds Terrorism! She raises money for known terrorists!"). She may or may not be confused, but she's also ridiculously talented and smart and interesting and I'd hate to see her reduced to a political hackey-sack.

I am definately going to learn some more about this. My Dad is an Mauritian Tamil and i can't wait to ask him about this stuff as i'm sure he will have an informed view.

cicatrix - just to clarify, I meant 'vey few of us' as opposed to you and gt, who obviously have the in-depth knowledge that the rest of us lack and which is a really valuable addition to this thread.

And frankly, she's one confused chick. An artist's reponsibility is something we can argue about for a while, but just look at how "awesome" you find the "guerilla warfare" sounds of the album to be. THAT is the "exotica" factor, and she emphasizes it with the tiger flags, dynamite sticks, guns, molotovs, and all her statements in interviews. And THAT is what I have a really hard time dealing with. She's making this fun/hipster/cool..very "Viva Zapata!" as said by Gen Y...it's cute when it's about a situation over and done with.. but this is NOW in Sri Lanka. There's nothing awesome about it.

I definitely understand where you and others are coming from in comparing MIA's imagery to the Che t-shirts &c, but I think the crucial difference here is that the Che t-shirts are sold and worn by people with very little awareness of who Che was/what he did, whereas MIA does seem to be deeply attached to her beliefs - i.e. whether or not we are able to endorse her views, she appears to have thought them through and is promoting them through her art out of conviction. I don't think she comes across as confused at all.

Also, like gypsy mothra, the guerrilla warfare evocation is a generalised one to me: I don't take it as an accurate depiction of Sri Lankan freedom fighters, more as a non-specific, quasi-mythical evocation of The Struggle. Which is a pretty common recurring theme in all sorts of art, and I like the way MIA taps into its motifs and tropes and presents them against this amazing sonic backdrop.

(Thanks for the links btw - I've so far refrained from coming at this from a political perspective because I know next to nothing about the real situation, so they're very welcome.)

Is her answer online anywhere?

Without electricity, no food supplies coming in, curfews, and the packed bags always ready to leave our homes just in case.

I also know about the LTTE.

I know the stories of how its own leading cadres, when they started questioning its internal authoritarianism, were killed. Its gradual descent into a death cult, where all the Tamil people were offered was their glorious chance to die.

Of how dissenting tamils "polluted" the Ealam, and how they had to be eliminated.

I know there are shades of gray, and situations are complicated, but what is complicated about children being torn from their parents arms because the LTTE have demanded that each family provide one child to fight? What is complicated about a parent who holds on to their child so strongly that the LTTE have to break her fingers in order to take the child away?

The only reason the Tigers can use the Sri Lankan Government's human rights abuses as an excuse for their own atrocities is because the Tamil people are offered no other alternative.

And the reason why there is no other alternative is becuase the Tigers have sytematically and ruthlessly murdered every Tamil voice that might be an alternative. Whether other terrorists, politicians, or human rights activists. Even their own cadres who escaped and left the group are hunted down. The Tiger's claim to "Sole Representation" is built on the blood, and the bodies of other Tamil people.

As for the implication that its difficult for Tamils to voice their dissent to the SL Government. Well, try voicing dissent against the Tigers. If you live in Sri Lanka, you'll quickly find you won't be alive for very long. And if you live in the West, you can only ever do it anonymously. They threaten you. And they have murdered Tamil dissenters *in the West*, and they use the threat to silence a lot more of them.

It is naive to believe that the Tigers don't target civilians. Not only do they target Sinhalese civilians they also target Tamil civilians.

There is something deeply wrong about Sri Lankan political culture. The militaristic response has become engrained in the mindsets of the Government and the terrorist groups on both sides (the JVP in the 80s on the Sinhalese side, the LTTE for the last three decades). Life is not valued, not those of children, or of adults. Sinhalese or Tamil.

Of course you will find Sinhalese people and Tamil people who justify armed responses, who talk about the ends justifying the means, who will say that this is the only opportunity we have.

I love the country of my origin. I feel a deep affection for both the Tamil and Sinhalese people. I believe we deserve better. I believe Tamil children (and when I see them carrying guns, the cyanide capsule around their neck how can I not think, "that could be me"?) deserve better than to die for a political ideal that is increasingly scary and authoritarian.

When I was living in Jaffna (the 'capital' of the Tamil people) we used to have this joke. There was this aeroplane which was in trouble. In order for the plane to survive, thre passengers had to jump off to their death. An American volunteered, and said that he was dying for Capitalism, and he jumped. A Russian volunteered, and said he was dying for Communism and jumped. A Tamil volunteered and said he was dying for Tamil Ealam (the 'Tamil Homeland'). He pushed the passenger next to him off the plane.

This was a joke told among Tamil people. We told jokes about the Indian army too. That they had come to kill our Tigers but were now killing our chickens (they kept commandeering our animals). We were frigthened of all of them. The Sri Lankan army, the Tamil army, the Tigers. They were all armed - we were unarmed. They had power over us. They could humiliate us, strip us off our human diginity, degrade our right to be called human.

That's the complexity of the situation. MIA can endorse the Tigers all she wants. But it's covered in the blood of civilians and huge numbers of talented, creative, courageous, inspirational Tamil men and women.

People who I loved dearly, whom I mourn every day. I live for the day when I can see the leader of the Tigers on trial, by the Tamil people. I'm pretty young. I'm hopeful. Because I think my community contains such brave, beautiful, strong people, that one day, we'll get there.

So I'm no Tamil self hater, though the LTTE regards me as a "traitor". Because I believe in things like human rights, civil society, democracy and the right of the Tamil people to live in a pluralistic, democratic community.

When I wrote this:

"We were frigthened of all of them. The Sri Lankan army, the Tamil army, the Tigers. They were all armed - we were unarmed. They had power over us. They could humiliate us, strip us off our human diginity, degrade our right to be called human."

I of course meant to say: "the Sri Lankan army, the Indian army and the Tigers"

apologies for any confusion!

Parvati - great post!

I think I saw Antonio Negri doing this in a recent Chronicle of Higher Ed. interview. (Can't get to that at a moment.)

So true.

Keep this thread rolling, please.

OBV there are leftists who have committed terrorist acts and obv there are leftists who support terrorism (Jesus people STALIN was fucking LEFTIST for chrissake.) Terrorists come in all shapes and sizes and politics. I would never dispute that. But I think what Firstworldman was talking about was pretty specific and what I was SPECIFICALLY disagreeing with was his contention that among generally well-meaning progressive minded lefties there is a widespread tolerance for terrorists and terrorism. I call bullshit on this. This is not a fact. It is far from a fact. I do not hear the progressives I know saying this and I don't hear the progressive organizations I am involved advocating this. So again put up or shut up. This is a Fox News talking point and has about as much basis in fact as anything else that comes out of Bill O'Reilly's mouth.

Unless you meant "know personally" rather than "know of," I think I read this correctly.

I agree that most leftists don't support terrorism, but there has been a strand within leftism that does. Apparently we agree.

Your reading comprehension skills are shit (since I very clearly said above that such people do exist and are what we in the industry of actually thinking call "rare" or "non-representative".)

The sweeping statements about reading comprehension are uncalled for, but unfortunately you're one of the people here who resort to that sort of thing.

Inasmuch as it gave him a chance to access power, he was. But not much more than that.

I still think you turn arguments over facts and ideas into personal attacks way too quickly.

I mean she's had a great press campaign (half-based on her being 'exotic') but come on, it's like listening to kids chanting in a playground.

If I was to get my sister to read out the local curry menu in a vaguely rhythmic manner then it would sound more accomplished than her.

THAT'S WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT IT!

I was just listening to this on the way home actually, and I was thinking how astoundingly good MIA's vocal performance is over th album: she really nails every line in exactly the right way for it to burrow deep inside your brain, so every so often a random line from the album will rise unbidden in your mind. And her voice is astonishingly rhythmic, I think even if she did acappellas I could dance to them.

I know this time of year isn't the greatest for new releases and stuff but come on, there's much better stuff out there. She sounds like a half-wit.

Oh, just fuck off.

Why? Is the little white liberal broadsheet reading twerp scared of criticising a - shock, horror - non-white artist? Grown up, clown.

I find the suspicion of exotica thing very suspicious in itself. because we only want straight white men to make music, &c &c &c. (nb this is not an accusation but anti-exotica is not a position which is particularly defensible to me for much the same reasons)

I realize that Spencer's return to the focus on the album is a good one but at the same time I don't want to lose the dynamic at work here, so FWIW, here's something of interest I posted elsewhere --

I've found this in terms of US government v. Tamil Tigers -- I'm looking here strictly in terms of official government statements and responses from the US, precisely because I want to see what those statements are:

http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/tgp/ltte.htm

Extracted from a later version of this report:

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/pgtrpt/2000/2450.htm

As this report here indicates:

http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items01/061001-1.html

...the designation of the group dates back to the middle of the Clinton administration.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting report over at the official US Citizen and Immigration Services website regarding Muslims in Sri Lanka where the Tamils feature:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/asylum/ric/documentation/LKA02001.htm

To quote part of it:

Query:

Are Sri Lankan Moors (Muslims) at risk of harm by either Sinhalese or Tamils? Are they suspected by Sinhalese of collusion or affiliation with Tamils, or vice versa?

Response:

SUMMARY

Sri Lanka’s minority Muslims are at risk of extortion by the country’s Tamil rebels, who often fund their activities by forcing Muslim – and Tamil – merchants in northern and eastern Sri Lanka to pay unofficial “taxes.” The rebels, known as the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) or the Tamil Tigers, have in the past kidnapped Muslim merchants who resisted their demands. Subsequently, the families of those kidnapped are forced to pay for their release. Human rights groups and other observers report that the LTTE continues to extort money from Muslims despite an April 2002 pledge to end the practice.

Again, doubtless many things can be said or linked in response, so if they're out there...

If you don't think that she's had the type of press she's had because of her exotic ethnicity and the fact that she's female then you're being seriously naive. Fair play to her for running with it, but everytime you criticise 50 Cent or The Game for talking about getting shot but leave her alone then it's double standards time.

Hahahaha whatever.

I know a fair number of who Greg's talking about and it might not be all THAT surprising, I have to say.

Some of my best friends are white males.

Yes, I passed the entrance exam!

Some of my best males are white friends.

Albinist.

Parse this sentence for me, I'm not quite getting the gist of it.

Wow..I keep saying "there are no decent alternatives" ...but could never have explained why as brilliantly, beautifully and tragically as you just did.

Thank so much for joining this discussion; I hope you'll stay.

The joke in your post ... I'd forgotten the gallows humor that infected the country during the late 80s. The bitter, cycnical, dispairing "jokes." Don't know if you heard this one, from IPKF days of. er, 'peace-keeping' -

An American, Japanese, Indian and Sinhalese were sharing a train compartment. Someone asks for the time, so the American pulls out a solid gold watch, reads the time aloud, and then tosses the watch out the window, nonchalantly saying,"oh, we've got plenty of those back home."

After a while someone else wonders how many passengers the train could hold if every compartment was full, so the Japanese pulls out a dazzlingly hi-tech calculator, does the math, and then tosses THAT out the window, saying "oh, well, we've got lots of those back home."

Now the Sinhalese furiously tries to think of some way to compete in this macho showing of national pride. So he finally grabs the Indian and tosses him out the window. saying,"oh, those are crawling the streets back home."

As you explained so eloquently, it comes down to the powerful vs. the powerless. And the powerful manipulate religion, ethnicity, nationalism, and language to camouflage their greed and ruthless domination.

If I speak for the Sinhalese, it's only because their perspective should be on this board too. I'm half and half, as I keep saying. So I've heard both sides of everything, believe me. And both hate the people who claim to represent them. The Sinhalese hate the government. When Premadasa (Prez during the late 80s) got blown up by the LTTE, my Sinhalese relatives would whisper to each other, "they say they can't even find his TEETH!" and laugh like hyenas. They thought he deserved it. His wife was known as the Sri Lankan Imelda Marcos, and the rage and derision surreptitiously directed at her was something to see. Surreptitious because being critical alound of the goverment meant they'd come to take you away at night. Police, thugs hired by the police, thugs hired by a political party. It was all pretty much the same, and being Sinhalese didn't protect you.

The suicide rate in SL is so high because people have lost hope. The fact that foreign sciensts are dissecting brains to find the reason is typical, and ludicrous. The reason is right there - there is no hope. My Sinhalese Buddhist cousins there sound like jaded old drunks. They are scrambling to eke a living.. years of schooling are of no use. They all have friends who've committed suicide. On the Tamil side, most have left the country.

Sorry, a bit of context -- Greg lives down here in OC and we have a number of friends in common, most of whom I would call pretty darn left. That said I admit I have no idea which friends in particular he's describing, or even if he's referring to the circle we have in common!

And Premadasa - god yes, I hated him, and I knew he was hated by many of the Sinhalese too. The funny thing about the oversimplified picture of "Tamil" versus "Sinhalese" that is often portrayed is the fact that the problems in the Sinhalese South between government and various groups are completley ignored. I can remember how afraid we were of the JVP, and yet we were all shocked at how ruthlessly the government crushed them.

I remember for a while I couldn't see Sinhalese soldiers as human beings, because when they looked at me, I didn't think they saw a human being, but i realised that if I didn't recognise their humanity, and in many cases, their youth and desperation and poverty that forced them on this bewildering and brutalising war, I would cross a boundary I would never be able to return from.

Many sections of Sinhalese people were struggling against repressive Sri Lankan governments at the same time as the Tamil nationalist movement got under way.

I also wanted to make a quick point about the Muslims. In 1990, the Tigers forced 80, 000 Muslims to leave their homes in the North. These people were often given minimum notice that they had to leave their homes. The LTTE cadres that were sent to force them out were carefully picked so they were from different villages - so that the evicted people were confronted with strangers.

Their neighbours, the people they had known all their lives, stood by and watched them leave. Some of them cried, but no one said anything or did anything to stop it happening. Afterwhile such things become easy to accept.

Many of the evicted still live in refugee camps. They are traumatised, still identifying themselves as part of the communities they were so abruptly excised from, the homes they have lost.

What I remember about the war zone was the effect it had on people. Sometimes it shocked you, to see what people would do, the moral degradation. And at other times I'd be amazed at the courage I would witness on a daily basis. I carry that with me at all times.

To tie all this back to MIA. There is always this difficult question about art - and artists. There are many authors and poets I find very disturbing in a personal capacity. How does one reconcile this to their talent, their work? I believe it's always down to the individual negotiations all of us make. For me, some artists are worth it. And even then, I always look at the art in that context, I try to find the meaning there, I problematise it for myself. I don't often listen or view or read stuff divorced from its contexts.

And then there are artists I do not believe it is worth undergoing that negotiation for. MIA is one of them for me.

Most oft-abused straw man ever?

Amazing how fast this thread went from one of the most educational and interesting threads I've ever read on Ilx to total horseshit with Dyke's "reading the curry menu" zinger. Depressing.

Cicatrix,
What is wrong with women joining the fight? This is one of the things I love about LTTE, the way they treat women! They are treated equal. The Tamil society I grew up in, women had to accept what is bestowed on them. If the husband was abusive, they were expected to live with it. However, when I went to Vanni (LTTE controlled area) in December, I learned for the first time in my life that Tamil women don't have to accept such treatment. In LTTE land, women are protected. There, women are respected the same way as men. They can rule Eelam if they wanted to.

Anyways this is getting very interesting. I thought I was very informed about our struggle for Eelam. Seems like I have been missing out on some information. I have never heard of "drive bys." Well, before the peace talks started, and the government lifted it's ban on LTTE, there weren't many vehicles in the North East to start with. Anyways, would you be able to provide me specific incidents? If you read it somewhere, can you please provide a link or something? Honestly, this is the first time I am hearing of "drive by" shootings. I know they ambush soldiers, and I know how they attack banks, and such in the South. But "drive bys" aimed at people shopping in markets? Also, "letter bombs", "tiffin bombs", etc? Please, provide more info.

I found that article I was talking about:
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=63824

Here is a very interesting and a very sad statistic from that article "An alarming 70,000 people have committed suicide from 1990 to 2000 in Sri Lanka, with an estimated 14 million suicide bids."

It's even more sadder, because it's estimated that from 1983 to 2002 about 65000 people died in the war.

I guess to be technically correct I should also correct myself. Since we are not living in 1995 anymore, my statement should have read as "Sri Lanka has ONE of the highest suicide rates in the world."

*reads story* A very sobering article indeed. I note the doctor says that alcoholism is a huge problem in Sri Lanka -- certainly I didn't expect the country to be teetotallers since there are a large number of beers produced in the South Asia region but I hadn't realized that there was such a strong impact on the country.

Yes, they incorporate a new place for women in a culture which is often misogynistic - now, we are more than just mothers, caring and nurturing. We can also kill. So we have two options, the pure, the unsullied vision of Tamil womanhood, and the self-less self sacrificer for the nation. The Tigers have been quite clever but don't be fooled.

When Tamil feminists have rejected both these options the Tigers have called them "too western", that Tamil women are quite happy with the Tiger's brand of 'liberation'.

I have talked to Tamil women from other groups who were captured and tortured by the Tigers. I guess that's the Tiger's unique brand of 'respect'.

After the IPKF arrived, and the rapes and abuses they perpetrated, there was this leaflet that was distributed - that told Tamil women to take care how they dressed, to dress traditionally, to wear saris, to have long hair - that they shouldn't attract men with their appearance and that "we are engaged in a strugle for national liberation. But the changes whcih have been taking place in our culture will only demean our society".

GT, you talk about how many people have died for Eelam. How much the Tamils have sacrificed, the paramount struggle.

There is no place for the individual in Ealam - we are all supposed to be subsumed into the 'national liberation' no sacrifice is too great. We must give our lives to it.

Human Rights Watch interviewed the former Child Soldiers recruited by the LTTE:

The training was very difficult. They don’t care if it’s a rainy or sunny day. If you get too tired and can’t continue, they will beat you. Once when I first joined, I was dizzy. I couldn’t continue and asked for a rest. They said, “This is the LTTE. You have to face problems. You can’t take a rest.” They hit me four or five times with their hands.

—Selvamani, a girl recruited in 2002 at age 15

Lots of people tried to escape. But if you get caught, they take you back and beat you. Some children die. If you do it twice, they shoot you. In my wing, if someone escaped, the whole group was lined up to watch them get beaten. I saw it happen, and know of cases from other groups. If the person dies, they don’t tell you, but we know it happens.

—Nirmala, a girl recruited in 2001 at age 14

After four months I was sent to a landmines unit. I learned to handle landmines, to place them. I did this for four months. I couldn’t concentrate. Sometime a landmine would explode and children would be injured. Their fingers, hands, face. One time we were working in a line, and the last girl made a mistake when removing a landmine. It exploded and she lost a finger. She was 17. I was scared to handle them.

—Vimala, a girl recruited in 2003 at age 17

My parents refused to give me to the LTTE so about 15 of them came to my house—it was both men and women, in uniforms, with rifles, and guns in holsters…. I was fast asleep when they came to get me at one in the morning.… These people dragged me out of the house. My father shouted at them, saying, “What is going on?”, but some of the LTTE soldiers took my father away towards the woods and beat him…. They also pushed my mother onto the ground when she tried to stop them.

—Rangini, a girl recruited by the LTTE in 2003 at age 16

Anyway - re music - I have a very eclectic tastes in music - from Western (esp opera) and Indian classical music, rnb, soul, pop. I seem to have fallen out of hte habit of keeping up with current music during the last couple of years, but I'm slowly catching up.

Re the SL government - the Sri Lankan government is not a static entity. Different leaderships and parties have been in and out. There are complicated alliances. The reviled Premadasa made a secret deal to arm the Tigers when the IPKF started alarming the Government. The current Sinhala political parties are very divided on the LTTE question.

So in a way, without going into a lot of detail, it is difficult to explain the differing actors and their positions to you guys.

I was going to ask about this, I don't blame you for saying it was difficult to explain. Is there a division of any sort between 'right' and 'left' among these parties regarding the Tigers or is that far too simplistic a description?

http://www.worldpress.org/Asia/1015.cfm

It was written by Mia Bloom, and I believe that article is neither PRO LTTE nor PRO Government of Sri Lanka.

The interesting thing about this article is, she in many ways expressed what I was feeling when I went to Vanni. Many people in the west, seem to have this view of LTTE, that they are brutal, reckless, inhumane, etc. Even though I was a Tamil, and I did support them, it was only when I went there did I see how very Human they are. Of course, who can blame the media in the west to be portraying that image when the Government of Sri Lanka is trying to paint such a picture? But what I really don't understand is how the world will take the Government of Sri Lanka to be the voice of the Tamils, when the Tamils are clearly funding the LTTE, supporting them in every way possible, and the are the ones who are fighting the Government. Yes there are voices of dissent amongst the Tamils there. There are some who don't support the LTTE, and even some who don't want separation. But if the world can accept George Bush as the president of America when almost half of the population didn't vote for him, how can they not the accept the LTTE as legitimate?

Anyhow, if I supported them before it was nothing like what I'm feeling now. I deeply, passionately want to show the world they are not terrorists and what they are asking for is what we need because I was there in North East. I talked to the people living in areas under their control. I also spend time in Jaffna, which is now under Sri Lankan Government Control, and I talked to the people there. Since I went in December, I was there when the Tsunami hit. I saw the LTTE members weeping because the people they were fighting for were suffering. I saw them picking up dead bodies with their bare hands. I heard stories of how they went to the recue of the people when the waves hit. I just can't watch the world calling people like that 'terrorists.' I just can't.

Heh, I think a lot of us here have felt that way at one point or another, certainly I have! Eclectic = you'll fit in here just fine. What's recent you've really liked?

For example in the post-colonial-independence days, both right and left wing Sinhalese dominated political parties were very nationalistic and there was a good deal of chauvinism against the Tamils.

Whether it was the UNP or the SLFP, (and their policies in terms of western right/left dichotomies are rather complex) they both exploited nationalism and promoted discrimination against the Tamils.

The situation now is more difficult because of the potential money that any Government could get as a result of demonstrating to the West that the peace process could be on track. If they go ahead with negotiations, they can point to political stability and the worth of Sri Lanka as a place for international development.

Frex, this is why the current Prime Minister, Ranil, (from the UNP, and opposed to the President, Chandrika, is making favourable noises about giving the Tigers an interim Administration in the North and East.

Because the Tamils are now just a 'problem' and one that the Government can't cope wtih any more. Together with the potential for some kind of peace process giving additional enrichment (and the possiblities for corruption as well) the incentives to just dump the Tamil people to the tender mercies of the LTTE is very strong.

the LTTE aren't very left wing by the way. They are very conservative in terms of social issues, in terms of women, in terms of the economy. As you'd expect with any armed group that stresses obedience, social order, and self sacrifice to the 'state' or what they characterise as the 'legitimate' state.

Conflict situations are very traumatic. People undergo such experiences, and when democracy and civil society crumbles away, there is a tremendous and understandable fear and shock. You start getting very numb. Liberators? terrorists?

In the end you stop caring, you just try to stay alive.

But I think when Tamil Eelam gets set up, we will see the tragic end note to the Tamils of the North and East. I don't think I could bear to see it, and I do all i can in my own way to stop its conclusion.

It's a private tragedy.

GT, the problem is not whether the Tigers are 'legitimate' or not. The problem is that they will not let *anyone else* who can also represent the Tamil people *stay alive*. Any tamil politician who disagrees with them ends up on their hit list. *That's* my problem.

And *of course* I feel for LTTE cadres. I feel such sorrow for them, especially the younger ones. I feel sorrow for the brutalisation they'v experienced, the fact that they are figthing - the place they've ended up in their lives.

LTTE cadres per se are not my enemies. But they characterise me as their enemy.

I do not know what your working definition of a 'terrorist' is but I believe that any group that bombs buildings, uses suicide bombers and employs assassinations against their community is a pretty good definition of what a terrorist is. They are still human beings. A lot of them have had to make choices in their lives that I cannot imagine. I can even have respect for some of them and feel for them. But that doesn't change the terrible damage that is being inflicted.

Why the need to demand that every Tamil *must* support them? A healthy political culture should have dissent, not a one party state.

Ned - re what I am currently listening to - lots of old stuff actually. Al Green, early Stevie Wonder, Aretha. Because I didn't grow up in the West, I don't have the familiarity for all this stuff as you guys may have had.

Also, can we take all this stuff to another thread?

Very moving concluding paragraph up there, GT. I have not yet faced death and its aftermath so directly as what you describe after the tsunami -- I hope never to have to, as I don't know how I would react.

Thanks for the further explanation re left/right, Parvati -- a murky situation indeed. Seems to me that an artist who was able to capture the detailed complexity of this situation -- in any medium, musical or otherwise -- would be the one to have nailed it most completely.

Ned - re what I am currently listening to - lots of old stuff actually. Al Green, early Stevie Wonder, Aretha. Because I didn't grow up in the West, I don't have the familiarity for all this stuff as you guys may have had.

It's interesting because many things by them or equally well known artists can slip by still when one grows up -- call it socialization or the way that mainstream culture is constructed and consumed, though time perhaps has changed this. For instance, I knew Stevie Wonder well enough but Al Green was actually something of a mystery until my college years.

Also, can we take all this stuff to another thread?

I think that there's still something to say in terms of MIA's image and music w/r/t this but certainly we have moved very far afield. I'll start a new thread on ILE and link it here, hold on. :-)

I didn't say that you were necessarily trying to convince or persuade us. But I do think that most everyone else on this thread is trying to assimilate what are at times wild differing visions of this group and the situation over there and of course your view of it (as well as gt's and cicatrix are pretty central to our understanding.)

No kidding, but I gotta admit I was hoping that I wouldn't be MORE puzzled now than I was say 100 posts ago.

A thread for discussing Sri Lanka and the Tamil Tigers

I'd say any further specific statements from MIA or discussion about her in context of these issues is very much appropriate to this thread, but that the larger debates should go to the new thread.

Bf and I have a bet as to whether or not she will make the top of many year end lists. He is so certain that he is willing to bet this now, in February. I say no. Reading this thread, and some other profiles on M.I.A, I am just wondering what everyone's opinion is on how popular she is/ will be. (Obv, outside of ILM)
(As much as possible, I am trying to omit the popularity that could be spurred by her politics and/or looks.)

I know she's been profiled in the Times, etc. but I can't tell what kind of spin they are trying to give her.

Let me address your posts one at a time..

I have heard those stories too, and quiet frankly, I don't know whether to believe them or not. What I do know is that if the world knows about our problem it's because of the LTTE. I also know that the very reason the government is even discussing 'peace' and 'final negotiated settlement' with the LTTE is because of LTTE's strength. If the Elephant Pass attack hadn't occured, if the Katunayake attack hadn't occured, the government would still be arresting us, torturing us, and bombing us. Had we not armed ourselves, had we not fought for ourselves, had we not killed 'Sinhalese civilians more innocenter than Tamils', had we not brought instability to the Economy, had we not posed a threat to Sri Lanka's growth, NOBODY would be discussing Tamils' rights. Nobody would've cared that Tamils needed to get higher marks than the Sinhalese. Nobody would have cared that Tamils were denied rights to vote. Nodoby would have cared that Tamils lands were colonized.

Anyways about the internal killings, you have probably heard about the various theories floating around as to why Mahathaiya was killed. Anyways, LTTE claimed that he was killed because he was working for the Indian government.

Here is an interesting article that appeared on the Hindu in July 1989:

Prabhakaran reported killed in LTTE shootout

"Madras, July 23
The top leader of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, Mr.V.Prabhakaran, was killed in a shoot-out by the Mahatiya faction of the LTTE a few days ago, according to political sources in the North-Eastern Province of Sri Lanka. Mr.Mahatiya was the deputy leader of the LTTE.

His body is reportedly at a village called Ananthaperiyakulam 20 km north-east of Vavuniya town. Various political sections in the North-Eastern Province of Sri Lanka have been talking about this over the last two days. Another indication is that a video-cassette is being circulated in which Mr.Mahatiya has proclaimed himself the leader of the LTTE. Mr.Mahatiya is also reported to be wounded in one version. When contacted in London, an LTTE representative, while not willing to credit the reports, declined to issue a formal denial.

LTTE watchers say that the basic difference between Mr.Prabhakaran and Mr.Mahatiya was that Mr.Prabhakaran opposed the line of talking with the Sri Lankan Government and collaborating openly with it against India and the other Tamil organizations. Mr.Prabhakaran was also against lining up with the Sri Lankan President R.Premadasa, in the course leading to a confrontation with India as he took the position that Sinhalese politicians could never be trusted. Besides, he was reportedly opposed to killing the TULF leaders, A.Amirthalingam and V.Yogeswaran, as he felt it would alienate the Tamil people of Sri Lanka and the people of India from the LTTE.

Mr.Mahatiya has, over the past two years, been the key figure in the military structure of the LTTE. He had become co-equal with Mr.Prabhakaran, if not the main leader in the military there while Mr.Prabhakaran remained the apparent political leader. Various political elements in the North-Eastern Province had become aware of a situation of dual power at the top in the organization which has gone on an extremely violent course over the past year and more.

In the last ten days starting from July 13 the top political leaders of the Eelam movement have been eliminated violently - the outstanding moderate political figure, the veteran A.Amirthalingam, his colleague, V.Yogeswaran and the leader of PLOT, Uma Maheswaran, who earlier lost to Prabhakaran in the violent struggle for supremacy in the militant movement.

Kittu also killed?

According to Sri Lankan Tamil sources here, Mr.Krishnakumar alias Kittu, lieutenant of Mr.Prabhakaran, was also feared killed in the shoot-out. The rival groups clashed in the Vavuniya jungles, from where Prabhakaran and others were driven out before being shot.

Some other prominent LTTE leaders were also understood to have been killed or grievously injured. The sources said their information was based on a message the LTTE groups were passing among themselves, which was intercepted at Koriakulam village near Vavuniya. The sources added that people at Ananthaperiyakulam village had been paying homage to Mr.Prabhakaran by garlanding his portraits during the past two days.

LTTE denial

However, in Colombo, an LTTE spokesman dismissed as 'baseless rumours being spread by interested parties' that Mr.Prabhakaran was killed in a shootout. He said there was no truth in the reports doing the rounds in Colombo that two senior LTTE leaders had heated arguments with Prabhakaran over the killings of two senior TULF leaders in the Colombo residence last week."

That story appeared in an Indian news paper after India's policy change. I found it in Tamilnation.org, I don't think they would be printing false information. If you want to you try to find it in some archives, and arrive at your own conclusions.

Anyways to those of you wondering. No, Prabhakaran did not die. He is still alive and well. Contrary to the wishes of Sri Lanka and India, he survied the Tsunami too.

Anyways, I have to run now. I'll post more later.. :)

I know the stories of how its own leading cadres, when they started questioning its internal authoritarianism, were killed. Its gradual descent into a death cult, where all the Tamil people were offered was their glorious chance to die.

Of how dissenting tamils "polluted" the Ealam, and how they had to be eliminated.

I know there are shades of gray, and situations are complicated, but what is complicated about children being torn from their parents arms because the LTTE have demanded that each family provide one child to fight? What is complicated about a parent who holds on to their child so strongly that the LTTE have to break her fingers in order to take the child away?

The only reason the Tigers can use the Sri Lankan Government's human rights abuses as an excuse for their own atrocities is because the Tamil people are offered no other alternative.

And the reason why there is no other alternative is becuase the Tigers have sytematically and ruthlessly murdered every Tamil voice that might be an alternative. Whether other terrorists, politicians, or human rights activists. Even their own cadres who escaped and left the group are hunted down. The Tiger's claim to "Sole Representation" is built on the blood, and the bodies of other Tamil people.

As for the implication that its difficult for Tamils to voice their dissent to the SL Government. Well, try voicing dissent against the Tigers. If you live in Sri Lanka, you'll quickly find you won't be alive for very long. And if you live in the West, you can only ever do it anonymously. They threaten you. And they have murdered Tamil dissenters *in the West*, and they use the threat to silence a lot more of them.

It is naive to believe that the Tigers don't target civilians. Not only do they target Sinhalese civilians they also target Tamil civilians.

There is something deeply wrong about Sri Lankan political culture. The militaristic response has become engrained in the mindsets of the Government and the terrorist groups on both sides (the JVP in the 80s on the Sinhalese side, the LTTE for the last three decades). Life is not valued, not those of children, or of adults. Sinhalese or Tamil.

Of course you will find Sinhalese people and Tamil people who justify armed responses, who talk about the ends justifying the means, who will say that this is the only opportunity we have.

I love the country of my origin. I feel a deep affection for both the Tamil and Sinhalese people. I believe we deserve better. I believe Tamil children (and when I see them carrying guns, the cyanide capsule around their neck how can I not think, "that could be me"?) deserve better than to die for a political ideal that is increasingly scary and authoritarian.

When I was living in Jaffna (the 'capital' of the Tamil people) we used to have this joke. There was this aeroplane which was in trouble. In order for the plane to survive, thre passengers had to jump off to their death. An American volunteered, and said that he was dying for Capitalism, and he jumped. A Russian volunteered, and said he was dying for Communism and jumped. A Tamil volunteered and said he was dying for Tamil Ealam (the 'Tamil Homeland'). He pushed the passenger next to him off the plane.

This was a joke told among Tamil people. We told jokes about the Indian army too. That they had come to kill our Tigers but were now killing our chickens (they kept commandeering our animals). We were frigthened of all of them. The Sri Lankan army, the Tamil army, the Tigers. They were all armed - we were unarmed. They had power over us. They could humiliate us, strip us off our human diginity, degrade our right to be called human.

That's the complexity of the situation. MIA can endorse the Tigers all she wants. But it's covered in the blood of civilians and huge numbers of talented, creative, courageous, inspirational Tamil men and women.

People who I loved dearly, whom I mourn every day. I live for the day when I can see the leader of the Tigers on trial, by the Tamil people. I'm pretty young. I'm hopeful. Because I think my community contains such brave, beautiful, strong people, that one day, we'll get there.

So I'm no Tamil self hater, though the LTTE regards me as a "traitor". Because I believe in things like human rights, civil society, democracy and the right of the Tamil people to live in a pluralistic, democratic community.

But, again, I can't tell because I don't love the album.

Otherwise, Dude, you are OTM. The Brits are tastemakers.

I seriously doubt most people in the UK know significantly more about Sri Lanka than most Americans do. And I'm not inclined to think that knowledge would predispose them to like M.I.A. any more or any less.

x-post

Actually I think you might be wrong there. Keep in mind that Sri Lanka was part of the Indian colonial structure for at least a century and a half and there has been notable immigration from Sri Lanka to the UK as well. Whether or not that makes a vast difference in the awareness I don't know but I'd be willing to bet there's more than here.

That said, back to the music. ;-)

Anyhow, Sunshowers has the gritty verse/ pretty chorus thing which seems to appeal to US radio listeners.

Sonically, it's a big step - *way* harsher.

Who, me? I'm just a goof!

Sonically, it's a big step - *way* harsher.

Very, very true.

But yeah, as Alex says, I doubt this knowledge would predispose them to like M.I.A. any more or any less.

http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_01.27.05/beat/mia.html

The article is titled, "Tiger, Tiger, Burning Bright"

William Blake should be vomiting in his grave.

Best line in the article:

"The "Sunshowers" single -- her second after career-definer "Galang" and riding the same jolting mash of electro, grime, ragga, rap and South Asian influences -- contains more inflammatory politics than one might expect on a dance track that's available as a ringtone and has soundtracked fashion shows."

Going to go do something about this headache I got after reading the whole thing.

If she wants to draw attention to the situation in Sri Lanka, it would be more honest, (and lot less sexy, so there's an answer) to paint the situation as it is, without picking a side to glorify. I can't fault her too much since her dad was involved (again, no one knows how much since her accounts vary. Or maybe the journalists can't transcribe their tape recorders properly) and it is personal for her.

But I just can't see how anyone who takes this seriously and personally would be ok with RING TONES being made out song with supposedly serious political intent.

She's breaking into a musical genre that doesn't allow women in very far.. and she's doing it by transgressing musical boundaries every which way...much to her credit. She seems to know far more about music and what she wants to creat than the stripped down, sing-along, goofing-in-my bedroom vibe of the tracks led me to think at first.. again, much to her credit.

But her politics. oh god. Yes, Tamils were oppressed after Sinhalese (and the country as a whole -Muslims, Christians, Dutch decendants) won independance from the British. But under the British, the Tamils flourished, since the British granted the Tamils positions of power, and civil service, white collar jobs.

Her talk of chicken and egg dilemmas was pretty good.. only then, how far back do you go? Who really 'oppressed' first?

Obviously, SL is mired in a post-colonial mess created by the British who brilliantly followed a 'divide and conquer' philosophy. Same thing in Africa, same thing in the Middle East.

But we're here now, yeah? Fighting isn't helping anything. And the fact that she's rubbed a sexy, glossy shine on the LTTE that gives Western kids who don't know anything about SL boners...(hot chick, freedom fighters, viva la libertad, yay!)....gives me a massise fucking headache.

"But I just can't see how anyone who takes this seriously and personally would be ok with RING TONES being made out song with supposedly serious political intent."

Um you are joking, right?

But isn't that kind of what she's asking too? Who's a terrorist and who's a freedom fighter? I mean, obviously she's sympathetic to the LTTE, maybe more than they deserve, and it would be nice to hear her talk about the whole thing in more depth. But from that artice -- and from her songs -- I'm not sure that she's calling one side all good or another all bad. It seems more like she's protesting the division of the world into "good" and "evildoers" without taking into consideration the underlying histories, oppression, etc. I totally understand someone with personal history involved having a negative reaction (or positive reaction, depending on the personal history in question), but there are other possible reactions too. I can imagine Palestinians having negative reactions to, say, a nationalist Israeli rapper, or vice versa; but if they were talented performers with something interesting to say (plus good beats and stuff), I'd personally be interested in hearing both of them.

I will say that it would be nice if Maya came across in interviews as thoughtful as cicatrix does. But you go to dance with the artists you have, not the artists you wish you had.

Well, yeah..exactly. How does she want us to see her? Is the medium more important than the message, or vice versa? I was a bit hyperbolic about the ringtone thing.. but since not much about Sri Lanka is known in the West, it disturbs me that she's presenting this sexy package of booty-shaking music (with all the marketing plans of a savvy label), and here's-my-political-agenda (which is presented equally sexily even though it's supposed to be honestly what she cares about) social awareness. The blurring of her sincerity and marketing savvy concerns me...I don't care if she's out to become a superstar, good for her, yeah? But for to combine it with a political viewpoint that seduces Westerners...echh.. I dunno.

I'm repeating myself, since I don't feel like I'm getting my point across. I'm too close to this to take another tack. I'm out.

Haven't seen The Terrorist, sorry.

politically my sentiments mirror Alex's. going a step further, it sounds to me like what Sri Lanka needs is not more militants - of any stripe, left or right - but some good old fashioned HIPPIES. Or even a Bob Marley type of figure. (I am not being flip here, I really mean it - in any of these brutalized situations where you've got cultural genocide going back to god knows when and everyone's hands are dirty I really *do* revert to a "can't we all just get along?" pluralist pacifism stance. it's all those Moorcock books I read).

Alex, I'm a bit surprised you would say this -- while I don't think that something 'magical' like that could happen I would be *very* surprised not to see some sort of specific romanticization at play here. I agree that this is not thirty years back or so in terms of the impact of terrorism on a domestic audience (9/11 really DID change everything!) -- this isn't West Germany 1973 or whatever. But nonetheless to completely deny that some sort of dynamic couldn't happen just because you think that it's 'stupid' to think that way strikes me as dodging the possibility.

how come you always telling the story of the sinhala side? why dont you look for a story from the other side of sri-lanka?
sri-lanka has two sides, the north and the south, u been living in south side too much to know whats happening in the north.

u keep saying that LTTE keeps bombing colombo, thats a rare event, and its mostly aimed at politicians or financial institutions that provide cash for bombin the north.

u have no idea about the problems up north of the country, all u care about is what happens in the south. compared to the north, absolutley nothing happens in the south.

there is so seduction of westerners, this is the telling of the true story, this is no lie,majority of tamils support the LTTE!

bombs scare u, the random once a year bombs scare you, what about the tamil children up north who got bombed all the time? aeroplanes droppin bombs on civilians, tamil shelled, u think u r da shell shocked one? u think only the kids in colombo got PTS or shell shocked?

the fact remains, LTTE never aims for civilian targets, some get caught up in the assasination attempts, but how many innocent tamil civilians does SL army bombings kill up north?

LTTE are freedom fighters.

MIA, whatever her plan is telling the truth about GoSL.

In part, of course -- like you say -- it's the devilish question of what influence music (or whatever) can have on that classic bugbear, Impressionable Youth. It almost seems that you're reading the possibilities here through your own lens -- "Hey, I wasn't turned into a monster via Home Invasion (or whatever), so clearly all this worrying is for nothing!" But is it? (The same could easily be asked of Cicatrix, though.)

Ajen -- thanks for joining us but there is a separate thread specifically about the Sri Lanka/Tamil situation now up and running.

And yet there's still a general sympathy at work -- an impression left (if not action taken, sure) that a Free Tibet is a manifestly good thing. Now I wouldn't argue against that myself! But what if the situation was as complicated as the one being presented here?

And NO one was turned into a BLACK NATIONALIST (monster wtf?) by the either the COVER of Home Invasion (which if you think back you'll remember THAT was what the controversy was about) or by the music inside. White middle class kids didn't start reading Eldridge Cleaver or Malcolm X en masse (pity too.) SO yes, all that worrying and hysteria was for NOTHING.

My link is up above a bit.

...

I, on the other hand, DID start reading a lot of classic Black Panther/black nationalist stuff after hearing about them from PE/Ice Cube.

I think this nicely illustrates the point I'm trying to make here. Individual reactions will always be more potent that group ones, I feel -- and while the hoped-for result of something might not occur (I mean, Alex, did you feel more disappointed that there was hysteria or that the audience of the album *didn't* step up), there can be other, harder to see impacts.

Nor is there an overt encouragement in the album lyrics to support LTTE (It doesn't take a wild imagination to imagine far sinister chanting than 'ya ya hey').

I'm not trying to make excuses though. At this point it's not exactly clear what she is trying to say exactly (Especially given how murky these political waters are). But imagine if she was promoting an anti-LTTE message on this kind of scale. People have been killed by the for a lot less.

i dont think her gettin shot if she expresses anti-LTTE views is a matter, no need to speculation

his recent debate with luca at ghetto postage is also worth your time, especially if you've read this far. links found in the feb 3rd posting here: http://flyboy.blogspot.com/

fwiw, i think the idea that her politics are those of "exile and migrancy and the hybrid identities, noises and dances that arise from them" is key. if she's glamorizing anything, it's that.

by Abigail Wild
The Herald 5 Feb 2005

Maya Arulpragasam is busy, busy, busy. "But nobody cares, " she says.

"I'm there telling my record label, 'Look, you can't overwork me 'cause I'll die.' But they're like, 'You're from the third world, you should understand. If it wasn't for us, you'd be working in the sweatshop, okay?'

Honestly, these British people. Why do they always believe in this suffering-for-the-art thing?"

This, it should be pointed out, is not a genuine strop. After all, Arulpragasam knows real upheaval. Born in London, she was taken to Sri Lanka by her parents when she was six months old; her father quickly became a prominent figure among Tamil rebels fighting for their own homeland. As his commitment to the Tamil cause grew, his commitment to his family suffered. The civil war escalated, Sri Lanka became unsafe, and his family fled back to London without him.

Arulpragasam, now 28, did her best to forget about Sri Lanka, and would tell friends she was from Trinidad or Mauritius. But her attitude changed when she received a phone call - in the week she graduated from Central Saint Martins College - telling her that her cousin had blown himself up in Sri Lanka in a suicide bombing.

"Me and my cousin were exactly the same age, and it hit me hard that what I was thinking and what he was thinking just before he died must have been polar opposites, " she recalls. "I thought, God, I'm just getting set up in London to become really selfish, and think about my needs, and what shoes I'm gonna wear, and how I'm gonna cut my hair this week, just really pretentious things, 22-year-old things. After that, I spent more time thinking about where I came from."

Soon afterwards she took off to Sri Lanka with a camera and recorded as many reallife stories as she could, but there was little interest when she returned to the UK and she began to concentrate on music rather than film. She now records highly politicised dancehall tunes under the name MIA (Missing in Action). Her website, she says, receives regular hits from the US government.

Her experiences might provide a rich seam of material, but Arulpragasam doesn't do sob stories. "I decided I can either blame my dad, and listen to people telling me I have dad issues, this guilt, that complex, blah blah blah - or not, " she says. "I've got every victim card there is, but what if I just don't accept it like that? When I start complaining about how hard I'm working, I look back and go, f-, I don't have a leg to stand on. Shut up and do your thing."

MIA plays the Arches, Glasgow, on February 27.

Her album Arular comes out in April. Visit www.miauk.com

Interesting indeed.

But in the meantime I'm wondering how/if anyone thinks the pattern of this nascent politically motivated M.I.A. backlash may mirror some responses to the casual militancy, misogyny and/or racism of Public Enemy and Guns N Roses in the '80s and early '90s? Both of whom I love, btw, regardless.

"There are some really fucked up things being said/shown/portrayed by this musician."

vs.

"It's just music, jeez, enjoy it."

This need not be an external discussion between two people, but an internal one as well. It can be carried through more easily than others, depending. But if there IS a key thing to be taken away from it all, it's that if you find yourself leaning more in the end towards the latter argument then you shouldn't be surprised at the strength of the former one. Now you could reverse this and it still applies, but I've noticed that generally -- not *constantly* but generally (so no complaints, Alex ;-)) -- that those who could consider themselves to be pretty well aware of things on a political/social issue while still enjoying music that's 'suspect' react in interesting ways when those qualms are pushed more in their face. Sometimes the discussion is shut down and skirted around, sometimes there's handwringing, sometimes there's belligerence and anger, claims that those pushing the issues lack humor/perspective/a sense of fun. In all cases it strikes me as a desperate desire to hang on to a certain escapism, to value the pop/rock/rap/whatever rush for itself.

Alex, I think you're misreading my statements. And please don't take that statement as a reason to go back, select phrases and parse them of all meaning.

The Abigail Wild article fleshes out what bothered me about her. (Again, I LIKE HER MUSIC. I've said that a fucking million times, so where do you get my perspective on this to be "shut your ears, this is propaganda"?)

Given the info in that article, let me explain what bothers me. A Sri Lankan aquaintance of mine grew up in the States. Had a pretty conventional stateside upbringing, and concerned himself mainly about girls and school and beer. Fair enough. Then one day in NY, an altercation with the police and a 24 hour stay in jail suddely brought on this 'ethnic consciousness.' Again, fair enough. But THEN, after a gorging himself on everything he could find out about Sri Lanka and identity theory, he went around 'schooling' people on reality. Including me. Needless to say, I had very little patience with a person who, when on Sri Lanka visits, lived in hotels and partied with the rich, who couldn't speak the language, who'd maybe spent few months of trying to understand a situation this complicated, telling ME that I had 'assimilated' and forgotten my roots.

From the article, I see that MIA had a similiar Road to Damascus conversion, and I do not think that people who go from unconcerned to zealot know what the hell they are talking about. So, I think she's found her Sri Lankan consciousness, fell in love with a romantized view of her family, and wants to share her newfound knowledge with the rest of us. This does not mean that I think she's a mouthpiece for the LTTE. I don't mean to sound as harsh as I possibly do about MIA. As I've SAID BEFORE, I think she's just confused. As many people would be, most with even less vested interest in a particular perspective than she does in the LTTE.

Again, Alex, I don't see why you think I'm wringing my hands about naive Western kids raising rifles in the name of Eelam. Frankly, I don't give a shit. It bothers me, however, as a Sri Lankan who lived there while unspeakable atrocities were committed by BOTH sides, to see her transmute the reason for so much suffering into something pretty glib. Again, I'm keeping her music (and whatever she chooses to say or do with it) distinct from her views as articulated in interviews. The former is her right as an artist, I think; the latter displays are uninformed/naive/idealistic/coy/mercenary in various combinations, and the stakes do have "immediate earth-shattering real life consequences"..sorry if that's too much for you.

By her music, I mean that she can sing "murder sinhalese galang a lang lang... landmine, torture.. lang a lang" - (Obviously, I just made that up) - and I won't care. I like her music enough to not take the lyrics that bother me seriously, as I do with hip hop, for example.

By her interviews, I guess I mean not just her the "facts" she disseminates in the articles, but also her website, and the role Sri Lanka/Freedom Fighter plays in the management of her image.

Any questions about real-life concequences - please see Parvati's post on the Sri Lanka thread.

Ned - I've never gotten this reaction to what I wrote about Toby Keith, Montgomery Gentry, the Coup, Guns N' Roses, Trick Daddy, Kool Moe Dee, Spoonie Gee, Eminem, et al. Of course, what I write is humorous, perspicuous, and fun at all times. And I'm writing for the Voice, where talking about politics and social attitudes is expected - and often enough is humorless, self-righteous, and lacking perspective, though the music section has this problem less than most of the others.

Did anyone see her show at the Knitting Factory last Saturday? I'm really curious about it, so please share if you did.

Terrorism: Theirs and Ours
http://www.sangam.org/ANALYSIS/Ahmad.htm

I'm pretty sure he means that, gulp, *politically* the guns and sex makes more sense or is more palatable to tender indie ears. I.e. revolution versus thuggery.

There's only so long fake thugs can pretend - jay-z

drte25 at gmail

I would love you forever.

ken c: the massachusettes institute of art?

bought my ticket to the seattle show today. 265 sold before mine with no press, no advertising, a month away. not sure what that tells you but there it is.

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/news/05-02/16.shtml#story2

which is the track that's causing al the trouble sample-legality wise?

-"I like the music but oh no, MIA might not have been brought up in Genuine Poverty because she went to art school (obv no working-class/immigrant kids ever go to art school)...
-...and oh no, white people like her music...
-...and oh no, it's a really 'suspiciously' convenient fusion of lots of styles of music which are popular at the moment (music in reflecting lots of different genres shocker)...
-...so therefore I CANNOT LIKE IT because MIA is FAKE."

And he has the fucking nerve to cite rockism in an article where his own criticisms of MIA are as rockist as can be!

People who go on and on about tropes of realness = the enemy, always, whether they want real instruments or real songwriting or real underground credibility.

I will also note that it is almost always women - MIA, Lady Sov - who are on the receiving end of this kind of criticism. Especially women who don't confine themselves to an underground scene's template (it's not 'proper' grime! it's not 'proper' dancehall! oh do fuck off you boring boring rockists).

There's an interesting discussion of this in Sarah Thornton's book Club Cultures. She develops the concept of 'subcultural capital' to describe who achieves authentic 'cool' and how they access that status (eg: pay their dues). She describes how this is founded largely on patterns of consumption and behaviour that are typically more socially and economically available to men (IE: because they can earn more, may have less family responsibility, enjoy greater physical safety, suffer less social scrutiny of their behaviours, etc.).

So, by this logic, 'underground' is implicitly defined as male a priori. Conversely, the mainstream has been 'feminized' through both subcultural discourses about who's authentic and who isn't, and by the larger music industry which developed its Middle of the Road [MOR] catalogues as a way to appeal to female consumers who were presumed to be indiscriminate music buyers with no real taste. This last bit has been examined by Will Straw in "The Changing Space of the Record Shop." In the same vein, Thornton looks at how women in dance music subcultures have been viewed both within those scenes and in the popular press as not really having any 'real' taste or sense of what the music is about. Hence the extra bullshit that female performers end up dealing with.

not really: I just see this as tapping into an existing artistic motif re: The Struggle, The Revolution, one which artists have tapped into for centuries regardless of how 'real' they were. part of being an artist is creating your own mythology which is often more important than your reality, as an art student I'm sure MIA understands this. (there's something very Warholian about her use of military imagery, actually.)

I disagree. 'Realness' is quite a recent phenomenon. What artists have done in the past is commit themselves to political ideas and movements. In cinema Eisenstein, Renoir, Marker. In literature the list is incredibly long, and before anyone says 'red wedge', think through how much one bad example of political pop has been used to discredit all attempts at it. What good is a mythology of 'The Struggle' when there is so much real struggle out there?

part of being an artist is creating your own mythology which is often more important than your reality, as an art student I'm sure MIA understands this. (there's something very Warholian about her use of military imagery, actually.)

art students have also pledged allegiance: in '68 it was Hornsey that created the most significant UK contribution to the political/art movement of the time. warholian use of military imagery isn't really a big sell i'm afraid! 'The Artist' would seem to be your rock here.

But don't mind me, Simon's politics have been a mystery to me for some time now.

no, it's not a shame she's not from the street; it's a shame she goes in for the old rebel-rock 'I Am From The Street' thing. SR is rockist to the extent that were she from the street he'd have less of a problem with this pose. but if she were from the street, chances are her pose would be a bit less gauche [?].

(but having read the new comments on blissblog I have a feeling this is more about the off-chance she will run off with the grime label and you know "steal the fire of the gods". Which is also strange because In don't hear any grime in her music.)

I think ppl are misreading Simon's piece, i thought it was quite on the money because it avoids the traps on other side - that MIA is somehow the "future" or ultimate result of all these world musics meshing blah blah blah whatever on one side - surely this is just as unreliable of an "authenticity" as a class based authenticity (uh, she's just a girl copying other people's styles) - and on the other side, the people who say she sucks because she's inauthentic (in other words - does simon ever say her music is bad? I don't think so. I don't see it anywhere in the piece.)

Which is why i don't think it is rockist. He is trying to "place" MIA somewhere and I think he doesn't an excellent job of it. And he isn't judging the quality of her music from it, that's quite a seperate issue.

Oh - well there you go, from the New Yorker piece.

[got a PE flashback there: "yeah but the way Chuck has been portraited in the media" TATATADADA.] ;)

Of course I've read those, but so what? Immediately the hounds are let loose so the poor dumb masses won't listen to the wrong kind of "grime" (which I always thought was a crap label, as in genre name, anyhow ;)

And yeah I agree with Alba that getting "to the bottom of her streetness" is somewhat ridiculous and in danger of destroying a very interesting artist. So enough from me.

I mean, why is MIA getting so much coverage relative to Ce'Cile in the major press outlets? Obviously neither artist is INHERENTLY better but I can understand how people would be annoyed at how easily she's been able to exploit her class privelege. (and i don't mean that she shouldn't ahve done this, either)

Maybe also a key factor in MIA's music not fitting comfortably in any sort of "scene". I can't help but wonder if Reynolds would have less of a problem with MIA if there were seven or eight other artists knocking around in a similar vein.

That's not the reason, surely? They lack that marketing push (read: record label $) that M.I.A.'s been getting in the US.

MIA does seem committed to her particular struggle though: however she also seems aware that despite 'my dad's a freedom fighter' &c, her position of relative privilege detaches her from it, and so she plays on it by creating this romanticised mythology, this image. Her music is definitely as informed by the art student ethos as her cultural background, and the resultant tension between them is one of the best things about Arular. It's not a case of either/or, she seems to be genuinely committed to this struggle which she feels best able to represent through mythology and pop art imagery.

Lex I agree with you really but Lady Sov is also clearly *way* rockist for all that "fucking fake" stuff in the Jentina diss.

haha yes. I think 90% of artists are rockist. Even Britney's said some pretty rockist things in her time!

I'm not sure whether this 'there are other more deserving artists out there' trope isn't a red herring - it crops up regularly in Sov discussions too. I agree that Ce'cile should get more press, but why does it need to be Ce'cile OR MIA? They're both great.

i'm just saying we need to recognize the power dynamics here, the way in which her elite status (lets not beat around the bush) has given her all these connections and opportunities denied to equally talented artists.

not really...these kind of criticisms have been levelled against white rock bands since the 60s/70s (simon mentions the clash in that review).

(xpost)

What makes you so sure it's these supposed connections (she knows the fromer singer from Elastica, what else?) that have ensured M.I.A. the opportunity to make a very good album? People without pop star connections get record deals, too. You mention Dizzee Rascal.

SR is thinking in terms of broad socio-musical change, talking about movements and genres colliding and MIA is merely one girl who's doing a cool faux-dancehall impression, and a lot of journos are going crazy for it because it manages to be both trendy AND good, which is pretty neat, but its also a reasonable thing to suggest she comes from "nowhere" not meaning that middle-class life is a cultureless void but just that her music is not a part of any sort of broad socio-musical development.

xp: Diplo, dude.

*Admittedly, I haven't exactly been looking.

Is that it?

If Ce'Cille had blown up this much, some people would be hating her as much. Face it.

OTM.

and uh, Lumidee had more of a chance than "Galang" of being a hit cuz the lyrics are about how she really really luvs a guy. matters of the heart and crotch have a leg up on the radio.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,,1120799,00.html

Been waiting for it for like a year now, am beginning to think that this album is a total myth :(

(which of these phrases will resonate least with American radio ears?)

like what?

http://www.achimmohne.de/images/1996/denn01.jpg

'Galang' would be lucky to make the top 40 even in the UK - and it was the UK market/charts i wa actually thinking about in the first place (assuming the US was a no-brain no-go pretty much, despite bloggerati adulation here and there).

The reason I think Arular will do well in the UK is because MIA is the sort of artist the glossier end of the British press absolutely loves - its an awesome album, there's an identifiably modern London vibe, she's got a story behind her, there are no immediate precursors (cf Wiley/Dizzee), she'll give good interview, Sunday broadsheet hacks will get to show off their knowledge of terms like 'baile funk', an oh yeah the hotness thing. Even the NME etc will probably give her the non-rock vote a la Dizzee etc, and Arular is considerably more accessible than either Boy In Da Corner or Showtime.

Unless this release date stuff fucks everything up, in which case we could see an Annie situation, I dunno.

(xposts re the harshness thing - I think MIA, 10 Dollar or Amazon could be the key single here and not Galang or Sunshowers)

i suppose i'm venturing the suggestion that she won't be successful in the UK at least partly because she's not American!

I think you're being extremely optimistic about Arular's potential success but I'd like to be proven wrong.

it's not promising that Galang flopped so utterly though. I think Dizzee-level success would be a nice surprise, and even then it's not as if we're talking top ten hits.

Was there any promotion of Galang so to speak or did it just slip out like x number of indie or dance singles every week?

Kaiser Chiefs are on course for a top 5 single this week. That's the British music charts.

(x-post)

A quick glance at the UK Top 20 shows the only two records I've knowingly heard are Goodies and Galvanise, which is not good. But then even I'm not expecting MIA to make it big as a singles artist - maybe I'm harking back to some golden age that probably never existed, when a record like Maxinquaye could sell loads of copies off the back of some good reviews.

there aren't many GENRES still marketable as opposed to just certain ARTISTS. Unless 'Fwd Riddim' did well more because enough people thought 'oooh grime, cool' as opposed to 'oooh this particular grime track is particularly good' which i doubt to be honest.

xpost

3 Tricky Maxinquaye Mar 1995
30 Tricky Pre-Millennium Tension Nov 1996
23 Tricky Angels With Dirty Faces Jun 1998
22 Tricky with DJ Muggs & Grease Juxtapose Aug 1999
34 Tricky Blowback Jul 2001

i keep forgetting to adhere to my own declaration of the singles chart's utter irrelevance now. because it really is. certainly for acts like MIA.

whether some station in the US played isn't the point as it charted over here - 'forward' did manage the abrasive/pop line pretty well (think it had a better vocal hook) - but even so I know a cpl of video channels I have didn't play the video here, can't imagine radio (beyond pirate) playing it.

as far as the charts go -- isn't it the case that they will have the quiet week (or 'indie') where other stuff will sneak in? still top 30/40 isn't bad for 'forward' (also another fun fact: I have heard it as blaring on the bus, but also from a mobile hurrah!).

Having said all that maybe 'galang' wasn't pushed properly? I don't know. xp

and here in the states i can't imagine a quiet week where stuff will "sneak in" the same way it does in the UK. I guess there are sort of stylistic vacuums that will come from time to time but to really get onto the charts here, shit has to have some pretty widespread support.

And I think fwd rhythm was much more "pop radio" than "galang," which had blanket journalism coverage from what I can tell.

-- Matt DC (runmd...), February 22nd, 2005.

big featured review (with picture) in the current Blender, and seperate featured review and artist profile (both with pictures) in the current Rolling Stone, fyi.

I really didn't notice any press around 'Galang', either in its original 2003 release or the XL re-release. Now, for Arular, yes, but not then.

By analogy, ask yourself why Big & Rich get way more attention on ILX than do the equally good, equally interesting Montgomery Gentry. I'd say (1) B&R speak more to our hopes and dreams, (2) we're more likely to identify with what B&R are doing (and we can do this even before reading bios/seeing pictures: we identify with what the sound is doing), (3) ILXers were having an engaging argument/discussion about B&R, so other ILXers listened to B&R out of curiosity and in order to participate in the discussion (to some extent, we're interested in B&R because we're interested in ILX). The last reason can be somewhat arbitrary: e.g., people in the press talk about what other people in the press are talking about, and that helps to define what counts as newsworthy.

So it isn't that M.I.A. belongs to an elite, therefore has press connections (though she may), but that she's doing something that people like us are likely to talk about and care about.

(Calling "people like us" an elite isn't entirely off the mark, because in this little cultural niche we are the vanguard of the chitchat; but obviously, there are other elites with a bit more influence, e.g. board of directors of Bechtel, Halliburton, etc.)

Just asking.

also, why is this woman crouching or kneeling in almost every single published photo I've seen of her? is there something wrong with her legs? or were all her publicity photos taken in a room with a 3 foot high ceiling or something?