MTV Picks the Greatest MCs of All-Time

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http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/index2.jhtml

10.LL Cool J
9. Eminem
8. Ice Cube
7. Big Daddy Kane
6. KRS-One
5. Nas
4. Rakim
3. The Notorious B.I.G.
2. 2pac
1. Jay Z

Not as completely horrible as it could have been. Bloviate.

― Eric Harvey (eric marathonpacks), Friday, 21 April 2006 13:40 (twenty years ago)

2pac in wildly over-rated shockah.

― Boring Someone in Some Dark Cafe (noodle vague), Friday, 21 April 2006 13:43 (twenty years ago)

No Chuck D? Geez Louise!

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Friday, 21 April 2006 13:45 (twenty years ago)

would've thought maybe an old school dude like Melle Mel couldn've made the top 10...also no Scarface or Kool G Rap in the top 10 seems pretty wrong.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:00 (twenty years ago)

also nobody from the south....which i'm probably not well versed enough to tell you who should've been on there, but i dunno, like Bun B or Big Boi or something?

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:01 (twenty years ago)

should've been rakim at no. 1

― Stone (stone), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:02 (twenty years ago)

Honorable mentions (from MTV):

Andre 3000
Big Pun
Black Thought
Common
Lauryn Hill
Kool G Rap
Scarface
Slick Rick
Snoop Dogg

― Eric Harvey (eric marathonpacks), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:04 (twenty years ago)

Andre 3000
Big Pun
Black Thought
Common
Lauryn Hill
Kool G Rap
Scarface
Slick Rick
Snoop Dogg

Still no Chuck D? Geez Louise 2x

― kornrulez6969 (TCBeing), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:22 (twenty years ago)

For a start there's the problem of whether they mean Greatest MC in terms of great records made or abstract "skillz". If they mean the latter, it's still a bullshit list but in a different way. It's just a wanky "these are the safely acknowledged greats" list that's got nothing at all to do with records you might actually enjoy.

― Boring Someone in Some Dark Cafe (noodle vague), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:27 (twenty years ago)

Verse Three: Kool G. Rap

Ayyo, I represent Queens, on crime scenes a murder machine
Put M-16's in niggaz spleens
So head for the hills, nigga cause when I get ill
it's blood spilled for real
I aim my fuckin steel and shoot to kill
So grab your bodyshield get ready for the dustin
The biscuit that I'm clutchin
Puffin like cess but that's the fuckin dutchman
Buckin at all you sucka cluckin niggaz that want the ruckus
We'll be three niggaz who's clappin but we ain't applaudin you motherfuckers
Keep my mack hid up under back, two shots to crack lids
Ain't gotta go rush to Toys R Us to get you Cabbage Patch Kids
Once I let the laser beams gleam and the red dots are seen,
Your whole team is gettin blown to smithereens
Queens on the motherfuckin map nigga we stay strapped
In fact I let a AK cap push your toupee back
Runnin with mad sons gunnin shit up and leave your hit up for the funds
Niggaz better stick to they guns

― Tim Passantino, Friday, 21 April 2006 14:32 (twenty years ago)

common shouldn't be within a 100 miles of top 10 of all time.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:47 (twenty years ago)

MTV2's countdown of the top22 greatest MCs ever (MENTALISM!)

Looks like that list was a bit different.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:49 (twenty years ago)

You mean MTV isn't the world's number one authority on MCs??

― Confounded (Confounded), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:51 (twenty years ago)

no wu-tang?? this list is weak like clock radio speakers.

― poortheatre (poortheatre), Friday, 21 April 2006 14:53 (twenty years ago)

KRS-One? Are they kidding!?!

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 21 April 2006 15:01 (twenty years ago)

Glaring omissions: Scarface, Kool G Rap, Chuck D and Lauryn Hill.

Idiotic selections: KRS-One

It's an OK list, just in the wrong order.

― MaxReax, Friday, 21 April 2006 15:14 (twenty years ago)

lauryn hill really? mc lyte should be on way before her.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 15:23 (twenty years ago)

People dissin' KRS better hope he don't hear about it.

Three way tie for first: Chuck, Rakim, KRS1.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 21 April 2006 15:27 (twenty years ago)

No Eazy-E, No Credibility.

― Boring Someone in Some Dark Cafe (noodle vague), Friday, 21 April 2006 15:33 (twenty years ago)

Roxanne Shante could rap circles around Nas, but then again so could Andy Milonakis

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Friday, 21 April 2006 16:22 (twenty years ago)

The lack of Chuck and any Wu Tang alumnus just baffles the mind.

Glad to see that Cube is still respected, though. His post NWA phase (Amerikkka's, Predator, Death Certificate, Da Lench Mob) plus all the lyrics he wrote for NWA earned him at least a top 20 spot.

― Big Loud Mountain Ape (Big Loud Mountain Ape), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:28 (twenty years ago)

KRS-One is only there because of "Sound Of Da Police"; everything else he's done is really, really, really, really awful.

I'm mad that Q-Tip and Phife Dawg are nowhere near this list.

― Dan (I Hate KRS-One) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:38 (twenty years ago)

THA ONE TRUE GREATEST MC:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/hukl/rayburn.jpg

― Huk-L (Huk-L), Friday, 21 April 2006 17:46 (twenty years ago)

everything else he's done is really, really, really, really awful.

dude criminal minded is awesome!

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:05 (twenty years ago)

Lauryn Hill would have to be in my top-5. When she's on and interested in rapping (ala "Lost Ones") her flow, intonation and lyrics are as great as anyone.

― Big Willy and the Twins (miloaukerman), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:08 (twenty years ago)

That's like saying the Dave Clark Five were the best band of the 60s because "Glad All Over" rocked.

― someone let this mitya out! (mitya), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

I have a hard time being objective when it comes to KRS-One because I think he's a complete and utter moron.

― Dan (MDK) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:13 (twenty years ago)

She has other moments, that's just the one that came to mind. She also has my favorite one-liner "after all my logic and my theory, I add a motherfucker so you ignorant niggas here me."

Whereas 2Pac gets topped by Dr. Dre on his greatest song.

― Big Willy and the Twins (miloaukerman), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:20 (twenty years ago)

That's a bad argument when in all likelihood Pac wrote that verse.

― Rodney's motives are beyond the comprehension of men (R. J. Greene), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:32 (twenty years ago)

Calling "California Love" Pac's greatest song is a pretty bad argument in and of itself.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:38 (twenty years ago)

HOW THE FUCK IS BLACK THOUGHT A GOOD RAPPER?!?!?!!!!

P.S. I just realized I've never heard any Big Daddy Kane! Aside from his cameo on that Prince Paul rap musical thing.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:39 (twenty years ago)

You know you're a shitty rapper when everybody would rather talk about and listen to your drummer.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:41 (twenty years ago)

HOW THE FUCK IS BLACK THOUGHT A GOOD RAPPER?!?!?!!!!

How is he not?

― Dan (Waiting) Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:42 (twenty years ago)

Because I remember the frikkin' keyb ostinatos more than anything "the Dalai Lama of the microphone" has said, aside from the occasional song about cheating"?

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:43 (twenty years ago)

ok and I remembered "the Dalai Lama of the microphone."

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:44 (twenty years ago)

I think Pac's underrated as a rapper, and he deserves or be in the top 10, though not number 2. It's actually a fine list, though as someone said it should be in a different order. And personally I'd replace Eminem and KRS with Big Pun and GZA. Otherwise I'm kinda surprised how appropriate the list is - it was only a few years ago when I watched an MTV show called Top 100 Music Videos of All Time, and the number one video was "Backstreet's Back"!

― Tuomas (Tuomas), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:47 (twenty years ago)

Ludacris has more of a right to be on that top 20 than at least a quarter of the artists.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:47 (twenty years ago)

"Fat," "dead" and "bohemian hat" seem to be helpful to getting on the list.

― Zwan (miccio), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:48 (twenty years ago)

black thought is alright but not close to top 20.

ludacris should prolly be at least an honorable mention by now....TI maybe even by now.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:53 (twenty years ago)

shit speaking of luda- what about REDMAN???

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:59 (twenty years ago)

also dudes that worked really well together like Run-DMC and EPMD get kinda screwed on these deals (prolly why no one from wu-tang finishes either)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 18:59 (twenty years ago)

But most of the Wu guys work well on their own. Run-DMC & EPMD not so much.

― Rodney's motives are beyond the comprehension of men (R. J. Greene), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:03 (twenty years ago)

yeah but name an eminem record that can fuck with strictly business.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:12 (twenty years ago)

well everyone on their list came out in the 80s or 90s but they did a seperate article of possible future top 10 MCs and included Luda, T.I., etc:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1529079/20060419/ludacris.jhtml?headlines=true

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:16 (twenty years ago)

big daddy kane is great, and i could imagine you enjoying his shit, anthony.

― deeej, Friday, 21 April 2006 19:23 (twenty years ago)

Not just trying to be annoying, but a question: Would anyone here actually put 2pac in their top 20? if so, how come?

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:28 (twenty years ago)

Special Ed deserves at least an honorable mention.

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:49 (twenty years ago)

How can Big L not be on there? His flow is so natural, distinctive and effortless (not to mention the quotability of the lyrics) that it just leaves everyone else in the dust. Among the rest, only Slick Rick and Eminem come close to sounding as if they belong at the mic (Snoop too I guess, but he lags seriously on content).

― baboon2004 (baboon2004), Friday, 21 April 2006 19:58 (twenty years ago)

And, Goddammit, where is Ghostface?

― baboon2004 (baboon2004), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:10 (twenty years ago)

big daddy kane is great, and i could imagine you enjoying his shit, anthony.

oh, I have no doubt. Gonna dl some stuff this weekend.

― ant@work.com, Friday, 21 April 2006 20:11 (twenty years ago)

God, Anthony would LOVE Big Daddy Kane. Who wouldn't, apart from KRS once upon a time?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:13 (twenty years ago)

OUTSIDE Magazine Picks the Greatest Punk Drummers of All-Time

― oops (Oops), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:14 (twenty years ago)

BDK is amazing.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:21 (twenty years ago)

http://www.3-x.nl/images/front/20070.jpg

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:22 (twenty years ago)

I'm in such a good mood because they actually recognized Scarface.

― Tape Store (Tape Store), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:29 (twenty years ago)

Maybe #2 is a little high for 2Pac, but let's get real. He easily fits fits into the top 20. I have to give some love for MC Trech. If he had better material, he would have been an all-time great. The first Naughty by Nature is CLASSIC.

― nicky lo-fi (nicky lo-fi), Friday, 21 April 2006 20:46 (twenty years ago)

Paul, I think lots of people love 2pac with good reason; he was a very effective MC and built on what scarface started in a lot of ways as far as communicating some very real and affecting emotions, and by approaching hip-hop with a broad lyrical approach; in many ways he epitomizes Posdnous's "Fuck being hard, [tupac] is complicated." Except "being hard" didn't contradict "complicated" for pac.

Obviously a lot of people don't like Pac in some circles which is too bad. He's never been my favorite MC, and I don't think he'd make my top 5 but he'd probably make my top ten. I think Ethan likes him a lot. I'm pretty sure his legacy will endure (already has) than lots of other rappers, including ones I like more.

"California Love" is good but its certainly not Pac's best track.

― deeej, Friday, 21 April 2006 20:48 (twenty years ago)

My pac defense there is pretty cliched, but basically what I'm getting at is that he appealed to a lot of people for a good reason, I think. Michael eric dyson's book "Holler if you Hear Me" is a good one to check out if you struggle to understand the man's appeal.

― deeej, Friday, 21 April 2006 20:56 (twenty years ago)

Where the FUCK is ODB?

I've never dug Pac or Big.

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Friday, 21 April 2006 21:00 (twenty years ago)

shut the fuck up, Mr. Snrub.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Friday, 21 April 2006 21:41 (twenty years ago)

Lauryn Hill is fucking awful.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 April 2006 21:45 (twenty years ago)

P.S. I just realized I've never heard any Big Daddy Kane! Aside from his cameo on that Prince Paul rap musical thing.

-- Zwan (anthonyisrigh...), April 21st, 2006 3:39 PM. (miccio)

never heard "Burn Hollywood Burn"?

― nervous.gif (eman), Friday, 21 April 2006 21:57 (twenty years ago)

I forgot he was on that! That makes two tracks.

― ant@work.com, Friday, 21 April 2006 21:58 (twenty years ago)

not coincidentally, Kane totally has the best verse on that song. Cube's is surprisingly weak. Kane also wrote a bunch of Biz Markie's best stuff (Pickin Boogers!)

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:04 (twenty years ago)

Deej, I can appreciate your point. I guess his whole cadence (the rising voice at the end of lines, his lack of humor, his see-those-metaphors-before-they-arrive) put me off, but I know he's a lot of things to a lot of people.
To me, he just never feels like someone I could love. I don't grin with him, think he's funny, or think he has a particularly evocative sense of street pathos. But (not that anyone brought this up) I don't find BIG especially funny, affecting or interesting either.
(And no one asked for this but) this is probably my top 10 (in no order)

Slick Rick
GZA
Andre 3000
Jay-Z
Nas
Rakim
Cee-Lo
Lil' Wayne
Big L
Doom

It's a really 90s / 00s list, but that's all I really know.

― paulhw (paulhw), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:12 (twenty years ago)

i think kane wrote some for roxanne shante too.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:14 (twenty years ago)

Deej's Pac defense makes sense on one level, but the reasons why people who grew up with him/identified with him/found something new and fresh in him doesn't really effect my opinion of him (since I didn't pay any attention to hip-hop until three or four years after he was dead) or his work. A lot of people would probably say the same things about, I don't know, Metallica or Pearl Jam, but there are still only a half-dozen songs between them that I'll willingly listen to.

― milo z (mlp), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:21 (twenty years ago)

No one's arguing Jay-Z's supremacy here? I like a good amount of Jay-Z songs, but I've never understood what makes him such a great MC.

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:21 (twenty years ago)

what the hell lets make a list

Ghostface
Kool Keith
Rakim
Ice Cube
Slick Rick
Chuck D
Snoop
Big Boi
Shock G/Humpty Hump
the D.O.C.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:22 (twenty years ago)

I like what I've heard of Jay-Z (some singles, some guest spots) but I've never cared enough about him to investigate. maybe someday. I couldn't argue with anyone about him tho, as I don't know his stuff well enough.

― Shakey Mo Collier (Shakey Mo Collier), Friday, 21 April 2006 22:23 (twenty years ago)

no particular order, probably forgetting a ton

ludacris
missy elliott
nas
ll cool j
rakim
ice-t
notorious b.i.g.
slick rick
trina
eminem/ice cube (tie! i can't pick between them!)

― ant@work.com, Friday, 21 April 2006 22:34 (twenty years ago)

No one's arguing Jay-Z's supremacy here? I like a good amount of Jay-Z songs, but I've never understood what makes him such a great MC.

Jay's incredible; listen to Reasonable Doubt. But he's not the GOAT. BRA, maybe.

― MaxReax, Friday, 21 April 2006 23:54 (twenty years ago)

I haven't heard Reasonable Doubt, but even though I've liked singles here and there (more often than not for the production), but Idon't get off on the way he expresses self-cofidence. he often sounds really sedentary to me. i have to respect him, but he leaves me cold.

― ant@work.com, Saturday, 22 April 2006 00:14 (twenty years ago)

I'm with ya - been trying to understand the appeal of jay-z for years . i mean - Timbaland said he was the most talented artist he's ever worked with ??????

I'd have to put Roots Manuva in that list

and if
Snoop had of straight after Doggy Style he'd be a shoe-in

― grapple (grapple), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:56 (twenty years ago)

should be - if snoop had of quit stragiht after

― grapple (grapple), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:57 (twenty years ago)

what, no fred durst?

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 22 April 2006 05:58 (twenty years ago)

Can somebody please quote a good verse by Pac? Please? I don't know that I've ever heard one.

― Douglas (Douglas), Saturday, 22 April 2006 06:26 (twenty years ago)

Listen to Jay-Z Unplugged and you will understand.

― Rodney's motives are beyond the comprehension of men (R. J. Greene), Saturday, 22 April 2006 07:14 (twenty years ago)

what, no fred durst?

Fred Durst is more of a prophet than a rapper.

― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 22 April 2006 12:26 (twenty years ago)

Can somebody please quote a good verse by Pac? Please? I don't know that I've ever heard one.

First off, fuck you bitch and that click you claim....

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Saturday, 22 April 2006 12:43 (twenty years ago)

I respect Jay-Z and Pac...but there's no way in hell either is better than Big Daddy Kane, Kool G. Rap, or fucking RAKIM. Just, no.

― Alan Conceicao (Alan Conceicao), Saturday, 22 April 2006 13:11 (twenty years ago)

ok all this shit about how pac wasnt funny or hating on his cadence or hes wack cuz 'i didnt start paying attention to hiphop til 3 or 4 years after he was dead' (wtf??) im not gonna even address but yall need to understand pac was not a cutesy big l punchline type of rapper - he put his lyrics together with so much intelligence & wit but even then a lot of it comes down to charisma & 'soul', and i guess its still just kinda this hate it or love it type thing for alot of ppl. he definitely could be real corny (a plus in my book) & took his thug persona from 'juice' (another plus, til it killed him) but just on the level of pure hiphop i know pac always loved words, loved rapping, and you can hear it in his songs even when he sometimes fell back on easy 'drug deala/thug nigga' rhymes (dude made a LOT of songs!), theres so much artistry in it and theres barely a verse he ever spit not worth hearing. and with that voice, a voice that commands, yells, laughs, cries on a song, becomes familiar as a friend or relative, a voice that could ride any instrumental from early 90s type shit like 2pacalypse & strictly 4 my niggaz to hard g-funk & eerie easy moe bee shit on me against the world & all eyez. and he was a fuck of a lot more political, and more convincingly angry about it than chuck d's smug ass, than any other rapper on the list (including cube, who gets way too much respect for occasional vague politicism - must kill koreans to save the black community - while pacs goes largely ignored by white east coast critics)(& krs is just like... what) - basically pac held down every aspect of what a rapper can be, from thug to loverman to scholar to prophet (he modelled his rap voice on a combination of scarface & martin luther king), his name still rings bells today cuz he represents all things to all people, and i think if his music fails to touch you then its worth going back in, deeper, trying & trying until that spark hits, because its definitely worth it to appreciate him as an artist & still have that presence in rap life today

― -+-+-+++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:21 (twenty years ago)

Can somebody please quote...

They say my ghetto instrumental, detrimental to kids
As if they can't see the misery, in which they live
Blame me for the outcome, ban my records, Check it
Don't have to bump this, but please respect it

― viborgu, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

haha ok i didnt see miccio's durst 'prophet' joke before i unironically called pac that - i apologize for my sincerity when i could be all LOL... SONGS about everything

― +-+-++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:25 (twenty years ago)

'i apologize for my sincerity'

The tracks I've heard haven't really grabbed me, but they're few and far between (And the kind of maudlin MTV bullshit with Bruce Hornsby samples) so I don't claim to have a strong opinion on 2pac. If there's a POX on him I'd dl stuff from it.

― Zwan (miccio), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:30 (twenty years ago)

why should i lie when i can dramatize?
niggas fell victim to my lyrics, now traumatized
simply by spittin i been blessed, given riches, enemies suspicious
cuz im seldom in the company of bitches
plus the concepts i depict, so visual that you can kiss
each and every trick or bitch, inside the shit i kick
my heaviest wordsll move a mountain
casualties in mass amounts, brothers keep countin
fuck the friendships, i ride alone
destination death row, finally found a home
plus all my homies wanna die, call it euthanasia
dear lord look how sick this, ghetto made us
sincerely, yours, im a thug, the product of a broken home
everybodys doped up, nigga what you smokin on?
figure if we high they can train us
but then america fucked up and blamed up
i guess its cuz we black that we targets
my only fear is god, i spit that hard shit
in case you don't know, i let my pump go
i can ride for mutulu like i ride for geronimo
down to die, for everything i represent
meant every word in my letter to the president

― -+--+++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:34 (twenty years ago)

xpost
nice post ethan.

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:35 (twenty years ago)

POX:
against all odds
hail mary ft outlawz
when we ride ft outlawz
shorty wanna be a thug
bury me a g
ambitionz az a ridah
cant c me
if my homie calls
only god can judge me
so many tears

― -+--+++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:40 (twenty years ago)

by age fifteen i sold to dope fiends
not yet a drug dealer but i watched em closely

― -+-+-++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:41 (twenty years ago)

Am I a geek for having Michael Franti in my personal top ten?

― Brian O'Neill (NYCNative), Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:55 (twenty years ago)

we probly in hell already, our dumb asses not knowin
everybody kissin ass to go to heaven aint goin
put my soul on it, im fightin devil niggas daily
plus the media be crucifying brothers severely
tell me i aint gods son, nigga mama a virgin
we got addicted had to leave the burbs
back in the ghetto doin wild shit, lookin at the sun dont pay
criminal mind all the time waitin for judgement day
they say moses split the red sea
i split the blunt and roll a fat one
im deadly, babylon beware comin from these pharaohs kids
retaliation, makin legends off the shit we did
still bullshittin, niggas in jerusalem, waitin for signs
"god promised, he's just taking his time"
livin by the nile while the water flows
contemplating plots, wonder which door to go
brothers gettin shot comin back resurrected
its just that raw shit, nigga check it

― +-++-++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 14:57 (twenty years ago)

so many tears (from 'me against the world', my favorite pac album)

― -+-++-++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:01 (twenty years ago)

buy me against the world on amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000005Z0K/sr=8-1/qid=1145721612/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1474383-6863123?%5Fencoding=UTF8

― -+-++-+, Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:02 (twenty years ago)

Am I a geek for having Michael Franti in my personal top ten?

hahaahah

Top 10 MCs of All Time

1 Michael Franti
2 Mike Ladd
3 M Doughty
4 MC 900 Foot Jesus
5 Shaun Ryder
6 G Love
7 Micheal Ivey (Basehead)
8 Rob B. (Stereo MCs)
9 Zack De La Rocha
10 Rudeboy (Urban Dance Squad)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:08 (twenty years ago)

mike ladd & zach de la rocha are both decent

― -++-+++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:14 (twenty years ago)

i like rage okay. i still have a mike ladd record but i remember hating it. maybe i haven't heard "the right stuff" by him....

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:21 (twenty years ago)

welcome to the afterfuture & infesticons are both good but yeah hes on some real real real abstract shit & i bet if i hadnt been convinced at age 16 he was gonna expand raps boundries or whatever i wouldnt be feelin it now

― -+-++-+, Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:24 (twenty years ago)

the one i have had sorta spoken word type flows, i really hate anything that reminds me of poetry slams. (tho i haven't listened to in forever, maybe it's amazing now)

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:25 (twenty years ago)

anyway lists suck - i already hate at least a third of my top 10 albums in the platonic rap thread

― -+-+-++, Saturday, 22 April 2006 15:32 (twenty years ago)

It's funny how people think there is some sort of objective Top Ten waiting to be settled on.

― JoB (JoB), Saturday, 22 April 2006 16:54 (twenty years ago)

jesus christ me against the world

― Compte J de Beaumain (Dr J Bowman), Sunday, 23 April 2006 10:07 (twenty years ago)

yea i saw the list i dont really think that jay z should be on the top because i think other rappers are just better lyricst but their is too many rappers that could said to be the best its really just peoples opinion i like everyone on that list but doesnt feel enough to me To me personally their is no best rapper at all because no rapper is best at everything every rapper has their strong point every rapper has their weak point its just basically peoples opinion but to me it really dont matter their will always be good rappers time to time but i dont think their will be a best

― Xzavier Lindsey, Tuesday, 2 May 2006 00:43 (twenty years ago)

Yo I Like Jay But He Shouldn't Be On Top. I Don't Think He Is All The Great. NaS, Rakim, Biggie, And 2Pac Are Better Lyrically Than Him. And After That Track "Swagger Jacker" That Cam'Ron Dropped I Don't Really Know About Jay-z. But I Believe Pac And Biggie Should Be On Top. Not Because We Show Sympathy For Their Deaths But Because They Were The Best To Come. And Rakim Should Be Up There Wit Them.

― Jose Valdez, Tuesday, 2 May 2006 00:49 (twenty years ago)

Ladies and gents, the law of conservation of capitals.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 00:51 (twenty years ago)

every rapper has their strong point
http://www.7l-esoteric.com/photo/002.jpg

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 00:51 (twenty years ago)

L - R. ETHAN P, NATE P, DUBPLATE STYLE

― city of gyros (chaki), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 00:52 (twenty years ago)

SORRY WE CANT ALL LOOK LIKE DAVE NAVARROS CHUNKY COUSIN

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:02 (twenty years ago)

http://www.nndb.com/people/349/000094067/lucky-luciano-1-sized.jpg http://yerf.com/uploads/tempalbe/nate_rec.gif http://centerstage.net/stumped/photos/bobbalaban2.jpg

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:19 (twenty years ago)

(L - R)

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:20 (twenty years ago)

L - R. ETHAN P, NATE P, DUBPLATE STYLE
-- city of gyros (chaki.tim...), May 1st, 2006 9:52 PM

dude, you're way off, the guy in the middle is the only one WITHOUT chin fuzz facial hair, no way it could be Patrin

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:24 (twenty years ago)

the guy in the middle has a long fuzzy tail tho

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:25 (twenty years ago)

I'm suprised at all the shoulder-shrugging about Jay-Z. I mean #1 is always arguable, but he's definitely great. If you only hear his big singles you're really missing out. I can understand the "leaves me cold" comment - he's definitely icy at times, though he shows a bit of a warmer side in "Blueprint (Momma Loves Me)" (ignore the maudlin title, it's a great track).

Some of his best lines can whiz by you if you're not paying attention, so I only hope the people who claim not to "get it" have given things a good listen. He also has an amazingly varied flow -- sometimes he rhymes like he doesn't even care where the beat is, but he always knows where it is and can hit it harder than anyone when he wants the effect ("It's Hot(Some Like it Hot)," or "Jigga What, Jigga Who").

Reasonable Doubt is definitely the one to check out, but lots of great stuff on The Blueprint, and really on all the albums I've checked out (haven't really given The Dynasty, Blueprint 2, or Best of Both Worlds much of a spin). The Black Album strikes me as more of a production album than a rap album, so I wouldn't judge by that, even though it has some great songs.

I don't even know what to quote -- there are already at least a couple Jay-Z quote threads. I think this is a pretty sick diss verse:

I don't care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews
You little FUCK, I've got money stacks bigger than you
When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight
you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya
Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor
Well - we don't believe you, you need more people
Roc-A-Fella, students of the game, we passed the classes
Nobody could read you dudes like we do
Don't let 'em gas you like Jigga is ass and won't clap you
Trust me on this one - I'll detach you
Mind from spirit, body from soul
They'll have to hold a mass, put your body in a hole
No, you're not on my level get your brakes tweaked
I sold what ya whole album sold in my first week
You guys don't want it with Hov'
Ask Nas, he don't want it with Hov', nooooo!

A personal favorite from U Don't Know:

I'm from the streets where the
hood could swallow a man, bullets'll follow a man
There's so much coke that you could run the slalom
And cops comb the shit top to bottom
They say that we are prone to violence, but it's home sweet home
Where personalities crash and chrome meets chrome
The coke prices up and down like it's Wall Street homes
But this is worse than the Dow Jones your brains are now blown
all over that brown Brougham, one slip you are now gone
Welcome to hell where you are welcome to sell
But when them shells come you better return 'em
All scars we earn 'em, all cars we learn 'em like the back of our hand
We watch for cops hoppin out the back of van
Wear a G on my chest, I don't need that for damn
This ain't a sewn outfit homes, homes is about it
Was clappin them flamers before I became famous
For playin me y'all shall forever remain nameless

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:36 (twenty years ago)

Damn though, Biggie destroys him on Brooklyn's Finest.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:39 (twenty years ago)

lol @ dude tryna put ilm & rock critics up on 'takeover' - clueless herbs' most quoted rap since baby got back????

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:42 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, but if you don't get it, I doubt you've heard it.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:43 (twenty years ago)

lemonade, a popular drink, you say?

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:45 (twenty years ago)

Is this guy a music writer?

I'm with ya - been trying to understand the appeal of jay-z for years . i mean - Timbaland said he was the most talented artist he's ever worked with ??????

I'd have to put Roots Manuva in that list

and if
Snoop had of straight after Doggy Style he'd be a shoe-in

-- grapple (bondistor...), April 22nd, 2006.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:47 (twenty years ago)

lol at music board posters trying to avoid seeming like "clueless herbs" by distancing themselves from genius mc.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:51 (twenty years ago)

Jay-Z: Objectively Best Rapper EVAH?
This Is A Jay-Z Thread....
top 100: jay-z moments
Armond White:"Can Jay-Z and Diddy save hip hop?"
Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs?
Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs? Pt. 2: The Saga Continues.
Jay-Z/Nas and other hip-hop throwdowns? Pt. 3: Still Going . . .
Jay-Z on Hot 97
What is the single Jay-Z album I need?
Jay-Z on Kanye's "Diamonds" remix
T.I. feat. Jay-Z, "Break Em Out" (produced by swizz beatz)
What's Jay-Z's hook gon be?
Jay-Z: POO
Jay-Z across the waves
Drop it like its hot remix w/ jay-z
R. Kelly, Jay-Z - "The Best of Both Worlds: Unfinished Business"
TS: Dizzee Rascal Vs. Jay-Z!
Jay-Z & Beyonce versus Nas & Kelis
JAY-Z - BLACK ALBUM LEAKED!
jay-z pre-reasonable doubt
Top 100 Jay-Z tracks
Jay-Z and Prince Charles
So Jay-Z loves Heineken
Jay-Z vs. R Kelly at Madison Square Garden
Taking Sides: Nas vs. Jay-z
TS: La Monte Young vs Jay-Z vs Metallica
When is Jay-Z going to get shot?
Where the Jay-Z acapella album got us:
Jay-Z: Do Canadians say "Jay-Zee" or "Jay-Zed?"
Do you think Beyonce Knowles is ever saddened by Jay-Z's lyrics?
If the Grey Album were Outkast instead of Jay-Z, what would the classic record be and who'd remix?
Taking Sides: Jay-Z/Nas vs Madonna/Janet
Jay-Z Pulls Out Of Reading/Leeds. Replaced By THE DARKNESS.
Has Jay-Z taken Henny Youngman's throne?
Jay-Z '45' where did this come from?
Jay-Z - As One
BEYONCE KNOWLES AND JAY-Z
Jay-Z sampled a Baligh Hamdi song
memphis bleek ft. lil cease, geda k, jay-z
jay-z and nas album sales
Jay-Z on Bob Costas?
Jay-Z: Classic Or Dud?
TS: Jay-Z "Girls, Girls, Girls" Vs. Ghostface Killah "Child's Play" Vs. MF Doom "My Favourite Ladies"
New Jay-Z song on Hot97?
(sort of) meta: Jay-z/Nas throwdown thread question
how is jay-z's verse on beware of the boys "anti-war"
I saw Jay-Z on the Street yesterday
Jay-z: Classic or dud?
jay-z the blueprint
jay-z performs with phish in brooklyn
BUY JAY-Z'S SHIT
Jay-Z interview on "60 Minutes"
Jay-Z - Some People Hate
battle of the ill lyrics, Jay-z or Nas
Lady Sovereign visits Jay-Z

and my favorite

theres this jay-z song with indie music in the backround does anyone know it??

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:53 (twenty years ago)

Yeah man, I've heard Jay-Z is famous. I've even read some of those threads. Just a couple people said "I don't get it" and the post was directed at them. Nice job though, you're really jockeying hard here.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:56 (twenty years ago)

'let me put you up on some obscure verses from that album 'the blueprint' - you mustnt tell a soul, for these are dangerous secrets!'

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:57 (twenty years ago)

shit man my pfork review was probly what opened your eyes to shit like 'genius mc' anyway

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:58 (twenty years ago)

Funny you should mention Genius.

One thing about Jay is that his drug dealing and gangster stories never really hold my attention like those of GZA or Ghost or Scarface or blablabla. Not that I doubt his 'realness', but he doesn't have the ear/eye for detail, character and pacing that a defines a great storyteller MC. He's really interesting musically, but not dramatically.

― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:58 (twenty years ago)

shit man my pfork review was probly what opened your eyes to shit like 'genius mc' anyway

Oh, too rich.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 01:59 (twenty years ago)

yeah that was pretty low

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:04 (twenty years ago)

xpost I actually like Jay's storytelling -- at least I like the way he just built up and built up this super-hustler persona and stuck to it. I think the details in "Blueprint (Momma Loves Me)" are great though.

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:05 (twenty years ago)

but otherwise you dont really have an excuse for your smug informing-other-white-ppl-about-jigga stance in 2006

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:06 (twenty years ago)

shit man my pfork review was probly what opened your eyes to shit like 'genius mc' anyway

Oh, too rich.

-- Abbadavid Berman (Hurtingchie...), May 1st, 2006.

yeah that was pretty low

-- -+-+-+++- (-...), May 1st, 2006.

And also self-indicting

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:07 (twenty years ago)

ill gladly incriminate myself for a good dis

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:07 (twenty years ago)

Jay-Z: "I showed you your first Tec"

Nas: "Whatever jigga, you learned about hip-hop from my Pitchfork article"

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:09 (twenty years ago)

http://www.cityofsylvania.com/Crier/crier2.JPG
HEAR YE HEAR YE! I DECLARE JAY A RAPPER FIT FOR ENJOYMENT BY ALL!

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:13 (twenty years ago)

Sorry, but if you don't get it, I doubt you've heard it.

-- Abbadavid Berman (Hurtingchie...)

― -+-+-+++- (ooo), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:13 (twenty years ago)

dude if you can't see the humor in you overselling Jay in a thread that didn't too much to challenge a list's assertion that he's the greatest MC of all time, on a forum where dude has been overdiscussed the death, then just shut the fuck up.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 02:14 (twenty years ago)

okIadmititwasalittleridiculous (walks away quickly)

― Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Tuesday, 2 May 2006 03:09 (twenty years ago)

Even though The Mighty Mos has only 3 albums out, he needs to be on that list. Since when has a rapper been intelligent enough to rap about lack of clean water in third world countries?

And if I hear one more person diss on KRS, I'm gonna get out lyrics from every single rapper. I think more rappers should spend more time using harmony and writing lyrics than counting their money from the phat beats their producers made.

― Jordan Erwin, Tuesday, 9 May 2006 21:52 (twenty years ago)

ethan, thanks for that 2pac pox. you did him much better justice than MTV ever did.

― ant@work.com, Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:39 (twenty years ago)

oh and I'm miccio on work dl, if that's not clear or something.

― ant@work.com, Tuesday, 9 May 2006 22:40 (twenty years ago)

Even though The Mighty Mos has only 3 albums out, he needs to be on that list. Since when has a rapper been intelligent enough to rap about lack of clean water in third world countries?
And if I hear one more person diss on KRS, I'm gonna get out lyrics from every single rapper. I think more rappers should spend more time using harmony and writing lyrics than counting their money from the phat beats their producers made.

Hee hee hee...

Welcome to ILM!

― Dr. Rodney's Original Savannah Band (R. J. Greene), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 01:30 (twenty years ago)

Eh, my complaint is probably an old man one, but (like always) MTV seems like they only started building a canon about 10 years after they should have, but they're sticking to it now.

― js (honestengine), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 12:15 (twenty years ago)

that's a valid complaint, but I don't think it's just MTV, for a lot of younger hip hop heads the canon only goes back about as far as Illmatic.

― Alex in Baltimore (Alex in Baltimore), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 12:19 (twenty years ago)

Mine starts at "All About the Benjamins" actually.

― mike (Commercialism in force!) h. (mike h.), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 12:31 (twenty years ago)

I totally agree that Mos Def needs to be on that list, and i'd like to add that he should never ever be allowed to ever act in any films ever again.

Signed: the people.

― Don Rowlando (Sam Rowlands), Wednesday, 10 May 2006 15:44 (twenty years ago)

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